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I have to say that as an HIV positive young man, I feel very discriminated against. So many guys are neg. for neg. only. Guess what?! I got HIV from a "neg." guy. Are you really sure you're neg.? A lot of guys don't even get tested regularly. At least I'm responsible about it and disclose it. On top of that, I feel that there are many people out there I could be perfect for, but they just can't get passed the status.

I read a very interesting article in GQ recently (http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_7437&pageNum=1) about the current state of HIV research. One of the most amazing things I read was that it's been proven and found through studies that a person who tests "undetectable" with medications for at least 6 consecutive months has a greatly decreased chance of passing on the virus, and that a person that has tested "undetectable" on meds for 2 years or more consecutively couldn't even pass on the virus if they tried. It doesn't show up in blood or ejaculatory fluids at all.

First of all, I think it's atrocious that the media hasn't at least informed people about this, but also that they haven't informed people that there is a method of preventing contraction of HIV if you tell a doctor of contact within the first 72 hours (you take HIV meds for a month, and it blocks the receptors of your white blood cells and keeps the virus from bonding with your DNA, effectively killing the virus).

First, I'd like to know how you guys feel about the poz/neg dating thing, especially given that at least guys are being honest about it, and there is a greatly reduced possibility of contracting it if the guy is on meds, and also what you think about these study results?


Addendum (12/4/0:
Here's the point that I'm personally trying to make with this topic, taken from a thread I wrote down the line in this post...............I don't expect a negative guy to be comfortable with having intercourse with me. I'm not demanding it from anyone. I understand that you have to be comfortable with that idea in order for it to happen, and have to come to that on your own. That's why I disclose that information upfront, and allow the person to decide. What I'm asking is simply for negative men to give it a closer look. Find out all the facts about HIV, how it is transmitted, how affective the medications are, and how you go about protecting yourself from contracting it. If you feel that you still can't wrap your head around the idea of being with a poz guy after you've done all that, then fine, there's really nothing more I could ask. But I only ask that you be fully informed before you make a decision, because as a very decent, good guy, I feel I should deserve the chance to go out with someone as much as the next guy. And the fact that I'm being honest about my status and candid about my experiences should speak to my character. Just don't rule out the idea completely without knowing full well what is involved, and how a poz/neg relationship could be made to work, and work well, especially with an honest, forthright guy such as myself.

I might be the first that replies, and I will take the hits:

I have been negative for 30 years, since the AIDS thing really started about 32 years ago. Maybe more, give or take. And I came out in SF when it was the epicenter of AIDS, in 1981 or so.

I do not want to be HIV positive. If I met a guy that was HIV positive I would seriously consider being in a relationship with him. I just do not want to be HIV positive. It is no more discrimination than if he had bird flu, herpes, whatever. I would not kiss a guy that had bird flu, had any contagious disease. It is not about the person, at all, it is about the disease. It is not about judging the person, it is about my own health. I have a ton of friends that are HIV+, I have lost a ton of friends, to HIV and AIDS.. But would I make a decision to risk my own health? No, I would not.

I would happily be single and celebate. I owe that to my family and friends not to put myself in a risky position.

JW

I don't think you can catch HIV by kissing. The comparison with bird flu is incorrect.

By the level of your astounding ignorance Triggerman I really doubt you have any HIV+ friends. Do they know you treat them as if they have bird flu or herpes?

Triggerman, I understand your response and you reasoning. But what do you say those people who simply look at the status and don't give it a second thought? I mean, you can be safe with someone, and never get it. Also, with medication, the virus is heavily suppressed (read the health article in the last issue of GQ as well as the world AIDS day article just published on this site), so combined with protection, the chances of you getting it are pretty much zero.

I'm just saying that someone who is responsible about the virus, is open about their status, and who is willing to be committed to preventing a neg. partner from getting it, should be given the opportunity to date neg. guys right?

I really think that an unwillingness to consider the possibility of dating someone of a different status is simply a lack of knowledge on the virus itself, how it works, how the meds work, and the state of HIV research today. As gay men, we should be keeping up on this subject, and should try to understand each other, rather than simply look the other way to those who have HIV, which happens a lot. I know, I've experienced it extensively.

Twice already I've talked along these lines today.

When Aids hit the media in the City I lived then. I was working for a gay bathhouse, it was very popular, and so was I. I could have six diffrent experience, in 12 hours, on any given day. free sex ruled. This was during a time when many got infected, and in the 70s.

After I went back to the bush to live. A few years latter I meet a nice looking guy, and we had a sexual relationship for a few years, and man was it hot! I did talk to him about HIV, and Aids, and the things I seen, working for the gay community. I did ask him if he was HIV +. He led me to believe he was neg. So the sex got even hotter, and spontaneous, with no protection AT ALL!

After I moved back to the City, and we lost contact. I ran into a gay guy from down home, and he informed me Don had Died of AIDS, and was surprised I looked so well and healthy. People knew he was pos, and about out relationship, and I know from conversations I had with other gay people down there, they knew something I did not, and made no attempt to worn me.

But still to this day,after all my experiences, and I now know I had many encounters with HIV + people, when I worked for the gay community. Not once have I eve been told hay I'm a pos. Yet I am still HIV - ! !00%!

Now if I met a HIV+ guy would I date him; maybe.

Oh PS. When I sang with a gay chorus just a few years ago. A proposition was put to us, I'm sure it come from the USA. It was would we as a group, support the promotion, of putting the responsibility of the transmission of HIV, onto the Neg guys, and take the responsibility off the Posguys. This was rejected, and had a quick death.

If it was not for AIDS. I'm sure my life would be very diffrent today! I may of never of given back my gay card, and I did that because of the young men I seen being given a slow and humiliating death, by people, who was not going to let some virus, deprive their dick of enjoyment! Oh I went to the police about the things I seen. But there was no laws in place at that time to do anything, and they also had no interest, until it was a female prostitute, who was pos, and putting str8 men's lives at risk. But then nothing was really done, until it was evident It was not just a gay plauge, heterosexuals were at equal risk too.

But my true care comes out as a nurse, and they see this.

redheadguy saidI don't think you can catch HIV by kissing. The comparison with bird flu is incorrect.

By the level of your astounding ignorance Triggerman I really doubt you have any HIV+ friends. Do they know you treat them as if they have bird flu or herpes?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that what Triggerman wrote there was not meant to be taken quite so literally.

I'm negative, and I'd have no problem with dating a positive guy. But anal sex is not an important activity to me. If it were, I might feel differently.

It seems that a good many positive men are reluctant to date negative men.

theatrengym: you're right on that statement - some poz guys are opposed to dating negative guys. For them, sexual freedom is what they're most concerned about. Others don't want to because they don't want to deal with the pressure of always being safe, not necessarily because they have to have sex without a condom, but because they hate feeling the pressure of having an accidental slip, or a condom break.

There are a good many of us though that just don't get the opportunity, even though we want to. And that often comes from a lack of knowledge, which breeds fear in those individuals.

And HIV really isn't like most other diseases. HIV is only infectious in certain situations, and surprisingly, many guys don't even know what those situations are. You CANNOT get it from kissing, you cannot get it from touching, using the same utensils, toilets, etc. The only way for someone to get it is to get the semen or blood of a highly infectious, untreated individual into a mucous membrane (i.e. anus, eye, nose) or an open wound.

I don't mean to be a total jackass, but in my opinion anyone that is getting sick with HIV, is not protecting themself in this day and age. There is no excuse with all the information out there, including the internet. I worked in a bar right here in Omaha, somet of the people were HIV positive that I worked with. They did not protect themselves. In my opinion, they do not protect others they slept with after they found out their status.. One of my friends constantly was texted by one of these HIV+ employees to bareback, and when this sick guy was confronted about his HIV status his response was, "He didn't care, barebacking is fun. That is disgusting.

Now, I know not every person with HIV is like that, but enough of them have been just like that even after they found out how HIV/AIDS was spread back in the 80's . That is why, IMHO why there is this discrimination with people are sick. Someone fit the stereotype.

Because of that, I think you should be aware that some of us feel that way about those that are sick in this day and age, because of past history. btw, you are not indorectly discriminated against, you are directly discriminated against because of this history.

I wouldn't have a problem being with someone who is sick, but on the other hand, I'd definitely be tougher on the sex thing. They would have to be the type of person that is worth the risk. Maybe you are. But from my experience here in Omaha, most are not. They don't care enough about themselves, let alone another person.

RedHead Guy-

Did you really read what I said? Do you really want to say that I, a 45yo guy, that come of age when AIDS really hit, in the epicenter of AIDS, in the SF Bay Area, does not understand AIDS?

I know AIDS. I grew up here in SF. I saw most of my gay friends die. Before you came to SF, and because you are so young, you did not see it. I did. I lost friends left and right. Do not tell me that I do not know it. I was here. Where were you?

I was talking about when it hit. I was there. In SF. You?

And yes, I know how the disease is spread. I kiss and hug my HIV+ friends all the time. All the time.

Would I have sex with them? Nope. I would not. Disease is disease. I know how it is spread. I prefer not to put myself in a compromising situation, HIV, Herpes, bird flu whatever.

Please, I am dumb about AIDS. Huh? I grew up in the hotbed of AIDS. I knew about it when it was still an enigma. In 1981, idiot.

JW

Maverick: Not everyone is like that. I got HIV from someone I was seeing, someone who I discussed the subject of status with, someone who told me they were negative. I didn't get it from capricious bareback sex. And once I found out I was positive, I was always open with anyone I was even considering dating, much less sleeping with. And I feel I am a very good guy with a lot to offer - why can't I have the same chance as the next guy? So yes, some people are like that, but you absolutely cannot pigeon-hole every poz guy like that.

One of the biggest issues here too is that guys are barebacking, and not getting tested, but claiming they're negative because A) they don't have the guts to get tested and deal with they're decisions, and B) they're afraid of the recrimination and discrimination they're going to get.

Listen-

I am not an idiot. I know how it works. I have no problem with anyone that is neg that wants to date a pos guy. I never said anything different. More power to you. Meds can knock down the virus, definitely. You all can date whoever you want. More power to you. If it does not bother you, go for it. I was only talking about myself. I was being honest about ME, not telling anyone else how to live their life. Do what you want to do. Date who you want to date. I have no interest in that.

I was just being honest about ME. If you do not like that honesty, fine.

Triggerman: I appreciate your opinion and your honesty. I hope that any of my own responses to this post have not made you feel as though your opinion was not welcome here, because it is. I posted the subject because I want to here the differing opinions. Of course, I'd be lying if I said I didn't hope to change a few opinions on the subject, mostly because I just want guys to give good quality positive guys like myself a chance.

What do you say to someone like me, who is young, did not get HIV from complete disregard for they're own health, but partly due to the inactions of the person they were with? What do you say to a young guy like me, who finds it difficult to find people his own age to go out with, people who are willing to give him the chance?

Jeezus, what idiots.

Does anyone read what I actually wrote or would they prefer to read what some idiot thought I wrote. And then they reply based on what someone said I wrote, instead of reading what I ACTUALLY wrote? Read what I said. It is not so hard.

I write things. I use words specifically. I think about what I write before I write it and I use words specifically. Words have meaning.

coolb, whether I'm educated enough about aids or not I don't know. But I do know in more recent times it does scare me to even think what my life would be if I was positive.

One thing is for certain is you are right, many people do not get tested regularly, they do not practice safely, at the end of the day ignorance is bliss but the consequences are worse off.

I'm not sure I'm ready in my life to sleep with a HIV+ person even if it was safe, it just seems that the virus is spreading faster and faster each day. Would I give up sex because of it? I guess I wouldn't, but at the end of the day you can't always take someone's word that they are negative, before you take the next step both people should be tested.

I'm not trying to dictate what is wrong or right but I guess it can sometimes be a matter of fighting your great feelings for a person for yours and future friends safety.

I do get angry at people who are reckless and just go out and spread disease without a care or conscience; but I also sympathise with those that have become sick because they were a victim more. But to be a victim comes down to a very fine line of personal responsibility.

Cool-

"What do you say to someone like me, who is young, did not get HIV from complete disregard for they're own health, but partly due to the inactions of the person they were with? What do you say to a young guy like me, who finds it difficult to find people his own age to go out with, people who are willing to give him the chance?"

I say, life sucks. You seem to be a good guy. But you either had unsafe sex with someone and you got infected with HIV. or I am not sure how you got it.

But you got it. Sucks. But you did. I am sorry. BUT, we could end this stupid virus in a year. If everyone that has it decides right now that we will stop it, we can. Never have sex with anyone, anyone, ever, again. Harsh, yes, but it would stop the virus from spreading. Jack off, do whatever, but stop having sex with anyone. I know that is harsh, but it would stop the spread of HIV in one generation. Stop it cold turkey. I know that is harsh, but it would be dead. HIV passes from one to another during sex. Stop having sex. Ever. Make it your gift to your Gay brothers.

Sydney: I hear ya for sure. And I definitely don't excuse myself of all blame. I realize it was my responsibility to be totally sure (i.e. getting tested together) of the guy's status before we went any further, and my decision to be as safe as possible until I was sure. It takes two to tango as it were. But what I'm trying to say is that all poz guys are not simply poz because they had reckless, unsafe sex. I did not sleep around with a bunch of guys and not use protection. It was one guy, and I was not necessarily "asking for it" as some people might be.

And I'm trying to show that there are many poz guys who deserve consideration from neg. guys A) because they're honest, which is more than a lot of people, B) because they are healthy and on meds, and therefore have the dramatically reduced possibility of passing it on, especially with protection, and C) they are a good guy that would fit well with many neg. guys who otherwise just don't give them the time of day.

Of course, some people will never be able to accept these reasonings, and I understand that, and I'm not mad at them for that, that's their preference and they're decision. Just hoping maybe a few minds will be opened to the idea, that's all.

Cool-

You do not scare me off from posting on here or anywhere else. I am never afraid to say what I think. I speak honestly, from my heart, and if you agree or disagree, it does not affect me one way or the other. I say what I say and I always will.

coolb, I know what it is like to make one mistake that changes your life in some way or another and you know you learn from it.

But like I said sometimes it can be difficult fighting those feelings for someone rather than actually thinking what could happen next.

When we go out, party have a couple of drinks (and this isn't directed at you) we always take a risk of not thinking.

Hey, I'll be your friend, I'll be your buddy. I guess it can come down to being scared of the fact that I might get too close to you and have to make a decision that means walking a fine line between positive and negative.

I know this sounds ridiculous, but it is almost like dating 2 people: the person you know and the enemy within.

No, I get it, I totally do. I understand what you're saying, and appreciate that view. And I really don't blame you for feeling that way. I probably would too if I was still negative. I just want to hear all the views, and hopefully have some people listen to mine as well

This may seem corny, but my perspective of gay men with HIV changed quite a bit after watching Queer as Folk.

I'm a virgin, but pretty sure I'm a bottom; Bottoms have a greater risk of contracting STDs right? Even with a condom--to me there is still a huge risk of having sex with a poz guy. Maybe not statistically (condom breaks are rare I believe), but it is a huge risk because my life could depend on a thin film of rubber.

It must be noted that sex in general is kinda of risky--the bodily responses during sex are immense.

Also, with the neg/neg/ couple--what is one has the virus and does not know? (as the OP said)? I guess in theory, since most positive peole don't know they are infected, neg/"neg" sex may be just as risky as someone who has sex with a positive guy.

If I fell in love with a pos guy, it might take me time to get used to the idea of sex without thnking constantly about getting infected.

It is fear. Fears are often irrational... but sometimes they act as a defense mechanism. Is this "fear" the former, latter, or a little bit of both.

I do feel bad for positive people though--I 'm sure it is hard to find love.

As usual I am astounded by people's ignorance about these issues.

Firstly I'm sorry you contracted HIV Cool, these things happen and it only takes one mistake, a condom splitting etc. Bad luck for you and and many others.

However I don't think that some study about drugs and infection should make us all lower our guard. HIV and AIDS are still killing people and we should take precautions to protect ourselves and others.

Precautions however does not mean keeping our HIV brothers and sisters at arms length. I have a great relationship with a guy, and don't know if he's Poz or not. I don't really care to be quite honest. I protect myself and him too and assume nothing.

Let's be adult about these issues. Look after each other and in the case of Poz people, not limit ourselves from loving someone who might be the best thing that happened to us.

Lozx

I wouldn't want to end a relationship with someone I love who has HIV, but it would scare me terribly every day to wonder if I could accidentally contract it. I don't think I could enjoy sex knowing that my engagement, however safe it is, is with the risk that I fear the most.

I guess being HIV + it is easy for you to start such a topic asking why why why. I actually think this is a very selfish topic since, afterall, you are no longer at risk because you are positive. I would never knowingly engage in such a terrible decision as to having sex with someone that is HIV + and it has nothing to do with the person in whole but the disease. HIV knows no boundaries, limits, color, sexual orientation, or sex. It is a ruthless killer and I get to see what it does to people every now and then through the medical calls that we run. Don't expect people to put themselves in harms way simply because they "might could" love you. I know you may have had no control of contracting this disease but most likely you did. Don't expect others to disregard their health just to be with someone such as yourself.

I wouldn't mind dating a guy that's positive as long as i know about it,I guess we'd just have to be careful and get tested on a regular basis.
As far as the new developments are concerned, I think it's absolutely great but withholding the information might somehow be useful for people to keep on paying attention and playing safe

coolb944 saidFirst, I'd like to know how you guys feel about the poz/neg dating thing, especially given that at least guys are being honest about it, and there is a greatly reduced possibility of contracting it if the guy is on meds, and also what you think about these study results?

I met and married a poz guy. He told me from Day One he had HIV. I understood the risks, and accepted them, with the promise he always kept that we would only practice safe sex. I remain negative to this day.

I'm glad to hear you repeat what needs to said again & again, because it's not well understood: there is a 3 to 6-month "black-out" period when an HIV-infected person will not test positive, following exposure. They can still infect others, but will not have yet produced the markers that HIV tests rely upon.

They can show you the negative results of the HIV test they took yesterday, and still infect you. The test is a snapshot of HIV status PRIOR to 3 - 6 months ago; it tells you nothing about the most recent months. Therefore, with strangers, or a BF/partner whose faithfulness may be questionable, you must always assume they are poz, and only have safe sex with them, or no sex at all.

I fight this problem every day, since HIV/AIDS is the principal cause for which I volunteer and donate money, and work at an HIV/AIDS agency in my spare time. Thank you for these important words.

Triggerman said-

BUT, we could end this stupid virus in a year. If everyone that has it decides right now that we will stop it, we can. Never have sex with anyone, anyone, ever, again. Harsh, yes, but it would stop the virus from spreading. Jack off, do whatever, but stop having sex with anyone. I know that is harsh, but it would stop the spread of HIV in one generation. Stop it cold turkey. I know that is harsh, but it would be dead. HIV passes from one to another during sex. Stop having sex. Ever. Make it your gift to your Gay brothers.

that's a good idea triggerman. or maybe could round up all the people with hiv and put them in camps on special islands far away? and then we could go after all people with all the other sexual diseases and what about anyone with any disease? round 'em up, ship 'em out! or in fact anyone that you take a dislike to, the fatties, the blacks? oh, and wait a minute, what about the queers?


grow up you dickhead!

Just a response to the first post. They wouldn't make something like that known because it would likely have a negative effect on the entire "safe sex" effort.

Stuff like that isn't necessarily 100%, and if someone does pass on HIV after ads like that aired, whatever group released those ads can be pushed right out of business by a newly angry HIV+ person.

The best way to get rid of HIV/AIDS is prevention, and so most of the money goes to ads promoting prevention. Other money goes to cures and vaccines (there are some amazing tests going on right now)

And to those being douche bags, HIV isn't a kissing disease. Fact is, most people still don't get tested, those who get tested every 3 months wouldn't necessarily be able to detect it everytime their tested as HIV can take up to 6 months to get an antibody response. So that guy who tested negative a month ago could have been positive for 4.

Read up.

I must say that I'm surprised that you'd waste your time worrying about what a "Neg" guy thinks about you. As a Poz guy for some 20 years and in a relationship for 25 years I've watched from afar how Neg guys treat Poz guys. Being shunned, not talked to or even ignored does lead to a seperational feeling. Its not that they hate you but just are afraid and don't want to go down that road.

I've had some hit on me because they don't care. I've had some who want to become Poz(which is something I don't comprehend) and I've had some hit on me who are Poz but their ad says their not.

Heaven forbid something should happen to my partner....but I wouldn't want to date a Neg guy. I wouldn't want to take the chance of infecting him and leaveing me with such guilt that it would dog me the rest of my life.
I would want someone who can relate to what I'm feeling and going through and a Neg guy couldn't do that.

As for the shunning....why care?....someday....when they are old and gray....their bodies will begin to break down...(whether its age or another disease) Then...and only then...they can relate to what you've been through.

There are however alot of guys out there that are Poz...who can see to your needs....and Love you for who you are and truelly care about what you've been through.

Wait for that one.....he IS the only one that will care and Love you.

dakuk said

Triggerman said-

BUT, we could end this stupid virus in a year. If everyone that has it decides right now that we will stop it, we can. Never have sex with anyone, anyone, ever, again. Harsh, yes, but it would stop the virus from spreading. Jack off, do whatever, but stop having sex with anyone. I know that is harsh, but it would stop the spread of HIV in one generation. Stop it cold turkey. I know that is harsh, but it would be dead. HIV passes from one to another during sex. Stop having sex. Ever. Make it your gift to your Gay brothers.

that's a good idea triggerman. or maybe could round up all the people with hiv and put them in camps on special islands far away? and then we could go after all people with all the other sexual diseases and what about anyone with any disease? round 'em up, ship 'em out! or in fact anyone that you take a dislike to, the fatties, the blacks? oh, and wait a minute, what about the queers?


grow up you dickhead!

Thank you dakuk! You took the words right out of my mouth.

wootwoot said...And to those being douche bags, HIV isn't a kissing disease...

I kissed my poz partner every day (deep-tongued him, too). Quite a few of my friends are poz, as well, and I never hesitate to give them a social kiss on the lips.

Truth is, I hardly remember which of them is poz or not. I actually try not to remember, lest it somehow color my thoughts about them, even subconsciously.

If they want to talk about it, fine, then I will. And then I promptly forget it, so that other friends, who seem to want to tract these things more carefully, are astonished that I never know who has HIV or not in our social circle.

Sometimes the faulty memory effects of old age have their benefits... LOL!!!

Lesson in survival: No risky sex unless you both have undeniable proof you're both negative - and it doesn't stop there. Proof means your track record; proof means a relationship that's deep and profound enough that trust is the operating mechanism of it. This is not an easy thing, and it takes dedication and TIME!

When we met, there was no sex at all other than frottage or mutual masturbation for the 1st year. There was talking. Endless talking talking talking. There was virtually living in each others' pockets. Claustrophobic? Yep. We ran at it and embraced it. We decided there would be no me and you. It was us. Us. Us. Us.

There was testing for everything under the sun. Repeatedly.
We'd both seen far too much of death. We had no secret- secrets or private lives. Why? We decided it was too trivial. Every slight insecurity, every smallest doubt was elevated to major importance. Our past experiences had given us the combined emotional fortitude to do this.

Eventually we had unprotected sex, and everything that goes with it. Was it great? Yes. It came with an underlying grief that we couldn't share this with anyone else. By that I mean the admission of unsafe sex. Why? It felt like bragging, lording it over those of our friends that were positive, like coming across (no pun intended) as though we were superior in some fashion.

coolb944, Your road is unfairly rocky, the stones that make the journey rough and bumpy are the dishonesties and self-justifications of many other HIV+ and untested men.

In Canada, the rule of thumb is this. Negatives must treat themselves as though they are Positives. Positives must recognize that they are. In spite of this basic, guys are still getting infected.
Those of the great looking and 'popular-man' among us all have a responsibility - to reach out to those less gifted with looks, emotional self esteem etc than ourselves; to elevate them and hang with them; to let them feel they are as deserving of as great a respect and love as any other among us. We say this because we think one of the biggest factors in current HIV spreading today in Western culture revolve around feelings of self worth.

Coolb944, you've touched the hearts of meninlove, and this one of us is going to step away from the computer for a few minutes and have a quiet cry.

Back in a bit.......

-Doug of meninlove

Triggerman said BUT, we could end this stupid virus in a year. If everyone that has it decides right now that we will stop it, we can. Never have sex with anyone, anyone, ever, again. Harsh, yes, but it would stop the virus from spreading. Jack off, do whatever, but stop having sex with anyone. I know that is harsh, but it would stop the spread of HIV in one generation. Stop it cold turkey. I know that is harsh, but it would be dead. HIV passes from one to another during sex. Stop having sex. Ever. Make it your gift to your Gay brothers.

Unbelievable, Triggerman. You should get a Nobel Prize for this fantastic idea.

Except that HIV isn't restricted to sexual transmission, so would you like to, what, ban NEEDLES too?

coolb944 - I appreciate this thread. HIV- in a committed 4 yr relationship here, but it definitely raises awareness. Thank you. And for the record, I wouldn't rule out dating a poz guy either, provided we're sensible, know our limitations. HIV doesn't stop two people loving each other and sharing a life together.

Everyone is talking about giving HIV+ guys a chance. What about HIV+ guys giving HIV- guys a chance? Ever think there might be guys out there that give up on possible relationships because they are too afraid they might hurt someone else? Something to think about....

coolb944 saidI read a very interesting article in GQ recently about the current state of HIV research. One of the most amazing things I read was that it's been proven and found through studies that a person who tests "undetectable" with medications for at least 6 consecutive months has a greatly decreased chance of passing on the virus, and that a person that has tested "undetectable" on meds for 2 years or more consecutively couldn't even pass on the virus if they tried. It doesn't show up in blood or ejaculatory fluids at all.

First of all, I think it's atrocious that the media hasn't at least informed people about this, but also that they haven't informed people that there is a method of preventing contraction of HIV if you tell a doctor of contact within the first 72 hours (you take HIV meds for a month, and it blocks the receptors of your white blood cells and keeps the virus from bonding with your DNA, effectively killing the virus).

This is old news. My partner is an HIV researcher with CDC.

There's actually more to the story, as I've written here before. Statistically, the chances of contracting HIV from a known positive are much lower than catching it from someone who is negative. That's because most infections occur while sero-conversion is occurring. In that period, you test negative but are highly infectious and contagious.

For this reason, it is foolish to have anal sex without a condom, period, under any circumstances. If you have to bareback, you can reduce your chances by waiting until you've both tested TWICE. However, using a condom doesn't keep anyone from straying. I will never understand why it's such a big deal for many men to use condoms.

I was involved in relationships with two men who where HIV-positive. We always practiced safe sex and I never sero-converted.

A few personal observations. These are somewhat disconnected but anyway:

If your that phobic about any disease (and Herpes is among them) then you'd better not have sex with anyone. Herpes, because it isn't fatal, is rarely disclosed, it is contagious, though not as bad, even when there's no outbreak, and while I've heard other disclose their HIV status, I've never heard someone disclose their Herpes status. There are many incurable diseases that don't manifest themselves in ways you can tell without honest disclosure. When you find yourself having to personally deal with those issues, you may be singing a different tune. Living healthy is a good approach to daily life, but it should not preclude you from 'living.'

In my 51 years, and in the last 28 years or so I've done some pretty stupid things and I'm extraordinarily lucky to be as healthy as I am. I express it by continuing to live as healthy, grateful and altruistic life as I can.

I've dated HIV positive men and played safe. This is usually safer than 'playing safe' with someone who you don't know (or trust) their status, since there's often less diligence on either side than there is when you know for sure.

Regardless of the reason (race, culture, HIV status, age...whatever), I don't want to be with someone who doesn't also want to be with me. I can't waste my time with anyone who dismisses me based on something over which I have no control.

Daaaang. There are some seriously harsh words going on in here. I have to say that this is a difficult topic to really take sides on. Honestly, it's all about perspective, as most arguments are.

Those who are HIV- will most likely shy away, or at least have some reservations about the possibility of a relationship with an HIV+ person. Conversely, those with HIV probably feel like the dating pool is unimaginably small and that those who are HIV- aren't giving them a chance simply because of their status.

Having said that, there are people out there who would consider dating an HIV+ person. After all, HIV doesn't define who they are. Some are more willing than others to see past it.

I think the important thing to remember here is that people will do whatever they feel is in their best interests. Regardless of the risk, if people don't want to do something, they shouldn't be expected to do it. At the end of the day, it's not necessarily about discrimination - it's about an individual's health and the possibility of compromising it.

Thanks for this thread. It prompted me to remember a special group of major donors to the principal HIV/AIDS non-profit organization in South Florida, and to make a phone call to their VP for Development a few minutes ago, who I know.

When my partner looks into his stocking on Christmas morning, he'll find a certificate making him a member of the Spirit of Hope Society, their highest level of contributors. Both of us are AIDS "widowers" and his commitment to AIDS work is greater than my own, so I know he'll be pleased.

Thanks again for making me think of this Christmas gift for him.

http://browardhouse.org/involved.html

Lemme weigh in on this topic briefly. As a younger guy who has been HIV+ for 4 years now I have dated both neg and poz guys. I have found that dating anyone is a hassel. The only real diffrence to dating a neg. guy is both of you are worried in the back of your mind about passing the infection to the other person. Weird but I would sometimes worry about accidentally cutting myself or being in a car wreck. Completely irrational but still those thoughts played out in my head at least a couple times a day.
After first becoming infected the only people I could find who were HIV+ were all the long term survivors who all looked like they had only 2t-cells and were on there last cocktail. And all they wanted was to get in my pants. Not much of a support group there. So for the longest time I had a hatred for other positive people as well. Ive gotten over that for the most part. Although sometimes I still look at some of these other poz. guys and catch myself saying some people deserve this. (Way wrong I know)
I do take offense to some of the statement made here but I remind myself that its just honesty and not ignorance. I feel that who anyone dates is there business, just be reminded that no matter what their status is there going to be baggage surronding HIV no matter what. A forum on rj is not going to start or stop anyones opinions or feelings. I would like to say 2 things thou.

1. Im not sick. Would you please refrain from saying that. Just because one has HIV doesnt mean they are sick or in danger of getting sick. Since testing positive in Feb. 2004 I have always remained both asymptomatic and non-progressive without the use of any medications. I dont know why but thats just the way its worked out. My viral load has always been non detectable. And even though my doctor and many other experts agree that the chance of me passing on HIV is slim, I still have a responsibility to others out there.

2. I blame no one for my HIV status it was a poor set of circumstances that led me to getting infected. Both ignorance and love on both of our parts. I look for no sympathy and expect none, I am souly responsible for my actions. However I refuse to just go live in a cave and jackoff everytime I feel like getting off. Just as I take responsibility for my life others must do the same. Wether poz or neg. The notion that I owe it to the gay community as a whole not to have sex ever again is wrong. By that same note all the people who were there at the begining let the younger people down by letting AIDS activism die down after AZT was made available and all ther so called friends had died. No the stopping of the spread of hiv depends on anyone who reads this topic to get themselves and maybe a friend tested.

As far as discrimination is concerned there nothing we can do about. And thats fine just love yourself first and if Mr. Right comes along then its meant to be. The world as a whole would be a better place if everyone would just take responsibilty for their actions. And learn how to cope with life without blaming others for their problems.

I have said this before on other forum topics re. HIV. You are safer having sex with a responsible HIV+ partner than having sex with an irresponsible HIV- partner. For some reason many gay men do not get this. They are willing to have risky sex (e.g. barebacking) with a guy they believe is HIV- then have sex at all with a guy that is HIV+. Well guess what, a significant number of guys that think they are HIV- are not. That is why the virus is still spreading in the gay community.

Coolb944 is right, there is a lot of discrimination and fear regarding HIV+ men in this community. First of all many gay men equate testing positive for HIV as a moral weakness on the part of the person that became infected. A sense of shame is one of the immediate reactions from the infected person. HIV is a disease not a moral judgement. Diseases (like life itself) are amoral, uncaring and non-judgmental. They just are. They are as much a part of life as plants, animals and fish.

I always practiced safer sex and was not particularly sexually adventureous but still became infected. But that does not matter, what matters is making sure I am living a healthy lifestyle, and respect my sexual partner to ensure that he does not get infected. Sadly not every HIV+ person does this, but I believe the majority do. Furthermore, many HIV- men do not practice safer sex anymore thinking they are invulnerable. Thus the rise in incidence of HIV.

My partner and I celebrate 11 years together in another month. We are happy and healthy. His latest HIV test came back negative. My viral load is undetectable (It has been for as long as I remember). I believe there is every chance I will live long enough to have a happy and healthy retirement. Think about my situation the next time a guy tells you "by the way I am HIV+."

SurrealLife said

"Well guess what, a significant number of guys that think they are HIV- are not. That is why the virus is still spreading in the gay community."

We'd say that it's one reason, but not the only reason.
Thanks SurrealLife, your posts are great! Like we said earlier, every Neg guy should conduct himself as though he's Positive.
There are Positives that have casual unprotected sex with each other, and we hugely disagree with that.
One of us has an ex that did this - he died of viral overload.
There's also the issue of mutation and the creation of a super-bug to consider.

Apologies for the earlier running off to cry in a corner.

of course they should be given a chance, anyone who feels less should really reevaluate their own insecurities, in my opinion.

I've had three great loves in my life and each of them was HIV +, my first partner 22 (wow that makes me sound old! ;-) ) years ago found out after we were together for just a couple of month's, we were together for four years, he is still healthy and managing his HIV very well, my second partner found out after we had broken up and after he went through a very destructive period in his life, he's managing it as well.

My current partner of 15 years has been HIV positive since the beginning, he has Hemophilia and so was doomed from the very start, he received tainted blood products back in the 80's. There aren't many Hemophiliacs from that period in time who aren't HIV+, his health considering the Hemophilia and a year of battling Hodgkin s Disease in 2006 is pretty good.

My point, just think of the wonderful life experiences and profound joy I would have missed had I not given them a chance.

btw - I have remained HIV - through all of this, just had my last physical a month ago.

If you are HIV+, your immune system is not well. You are sick. To say otherwise is denial.

My roommate, Logan, is type 1 diabetic. It's an auto-immune disease. (Something in his genes caused his immune system to attack his cells.)

One has a personal responsibility, as well as a social responsibility, to take care of themselves, be it being overweight, mental issues, or HIV.

We've known for over 20 years how to prevent the transmission of HIV. Every day, I can read scores of ads on Craigslist wanting "bareback" despite the fact that we all know how HIV is transmitted.

Sometimes, accidents happen. More often than not, however, be it overweight folks, or HIV folks, it's a direct result of careless, undisciplined, selfish, indulgence. HIV, of course, at present, remains a permanent infection, making the person sick, and causing them to lose their immune function over time. Kind of like cigarettes, or being obese, just a little nastier in some areas.

We are a compassionate, and caring, people. While one should be sensitive, the person with the illness, be it being overweight, or HIV, needs to understand that they bear a personal responsibility (in nearly every case) for their health. They have a moral obligation to be honest about it, too.

Sex, drugs, and being gay, all effect our good judgment. Knowing that, we take steps not to behave like idiots, engaging in overly risky behavior, whether it's sex without precautions, or stuffing ourselves.

No one can know, unless they have it, what a chronic disease feels like. I watch Logan's battles every day and I'm sympathetic, particularly because he did nothing of his own accord to get the disease. If you have HIV, though, you have a moral, and legal, obligation to tell folks in an unselfish manner. In most cases, the infection occurred because a person was selfish, and self indulgent. Folks with HIV, though, can make the best of it, and seek out others, like themselves, and still have a wonderful

As adults, and especially as adolescents, we sometimes choose to disregard the possible consequences of our behavior, whether it's smoking, eating, or stupid sex practice. We have to be prepared for the outcome when things don't go in our favor.

I'm compassionate, but, not an enabler. I don't want to have sex with someone that is infected: period. That's a choice I make to protect myself, and to do the right thing in disease and protection a larger of group of people other than myself. A person who is ill with HIV, or obesity, or smokes, has to accept that. I have no obligation to "pity fuck" anyone.

Folks have to be responsible, mature, and start exercising leadership and judgment in these matters. If you play with a rattle snake, sooner, or later, you'll get bit.

I don't understand it. If a guy kills someone with a gun...off to prision. If a guy kills someone by making them sick (a slow death), he often gets away. I'd feel just terrible if I killed someone and I do not understand the self-indulgence of folks who insist on using no judgment, nor common sense.

Chizzad saidI guess being HIV + it is easy for you to start such a topic asking why why why. I actually think this is a very selfish topic since, afterall, you are no longer at risk because you are positive. I would never knowingly engage in such a terrible decision as to having sex with someone that is HIV + and it has nothing to do with the person in whole but the disease. HIV knows no boundaries, limits, color, sexual orientation, or sex. It is a ruthless killer and I get to see what it does to people every now and then through the medical calls that we run. Don't expect people to put themselves in harms way simply because they "might could" love you. I know you may have had no control of contracting this disease but most likely you did. Don't expect others to disregard their health just to be with someone such as yourself.

And people wonder why some HIV+ men don't disclose their status???

Sorry Chizzad, but your response is far more toxic than the disease itself. You -- and many other gay men -- have to stop pointing fingers at HIV+ men and telling them that it's their own fault they are positive and they got what they deserved. Not only is it demeaning and demoralizing, but it somehow implies that said individuals are unworthy of love outside of their "own kind". The verbage you use implies that you -- and others like you -- are somehow morally/physically/mentally elevated over HIV+ men. Keep in mind, you can only avoid HIV+ men if you ACTUALLY know the status of the -- and the only way you can TRULY be sure of their status is if they tell you they are positive. Otherwise, it's really just a lot of hoping & praying that your trust in them holds out.

Sadly, many gay men are hypocrites -- while they will have safer sex with people whose status they can't verify, they recoil in terror/horror from people who are open about their status. Why? Because of the psychological aspect of that knowledge. For some men, not knowing for sure means there is a chance he ISN'T positive, and therefore it won't interfere with the mental excitement of sex and/or a relationship. However, confirmation of a + status means that anxiety and panic ensue, even if they are engaging in EXACTLY the same safer sex behaviour they would be if they didn't know the other person's status. While the reaction is understandable, it is nonetheless hypocritical. It all stems from lack of education, and the hysteria that surrounds that.

If people want to serosort, that's their perogative. They should realize of course that it's not infallable, and potentially gives them a false sense of security.

Wow, interesting. I just met Monday with a guy who was HIV+ for the purpose of better educating myself and picking his brain on this issue. We had a frank discussion about what I thought was safe, how I felt about + guys and how uninformed I felt I was. I'm new to being out and felt I needed to really understand more because I did NOT want to shun guys just because they were +, even though I knew I was.

What's most interesting to me here is that here's a group of gay men who have very differing degrees of knowledge and understanding about HIV. If the gay men in our society have such a struggle, no wonder society in general is confused, overwhelmed and uneducated about HIV.

It is scary, but what I have found is that what I don't know is what is the scariest to me. Little by little though, I'm learning that my ignorance does not have to result in the fears that I perceive.

Facts being what they are, is that unless you got tainted blood, or a condom broke, or were raped, you engaged in well-known risky behavior to get the disease.

Fat folks eat to much. HIV folks engaged in risky practice (almost always). That's how these things happen.

While sero-sorting (making an informed decision) may be imperfect, it certainly is a better choice than not doing anything to protect oneself.

I think many folks are compassionate, but, disease control IS all about containment, as WELL AS, prevention.

The person who is infected with a potentially lethal illness, has a moral obligation to inform folks.

A person who is not infected has an obligation to protect themselves from harm.

We wouldn't work on a powerline without rubber gloves (you only get electrocuted once), and you shouldn't ever trust that the person you are with is not ill, no matter what they say.

It's not about being mean and icky to folks who are sick with HIV, but, about containment, prevention, and personal responsibility, and the right to pick and choose, and assess our risks in an informed manner.

10 minutes on http://www.cdc.gov will help about anyone gain more understanding.

Disease is disease. If you get the flu, another virus, you try to contain, and treat it. Folks with the illness have to understand the consequences and their obligations as a decent human being to society. Folks who do not have the infectious disease, also, have a responsibility to themselves (to keep from getting it), to society (to keep it from spreading), and to be compassionate, but, firm in their stance towards slowing the advancement of the disease.

I see above folks who are clearly very selfish, self-centered, self-indulgent, and in search of pity. Compassion is something we all should have but, that lack of responsibility is generally what got the person in a spot to begin with. I would think that person would not want the disease to make one single more person sick.

I certainly, nor is anyone else, obligated to assume a risk for the sake of being "nice."

Here's something to ponder: if I were to kill someone with a gun, I'd go to jail. If I kill someone with a lethal illness, I might not even get caught. I don't understand how some of the folks above can be so very selfish and irresponsible, to even ask for someone to risk their health / life, for pleasure. The selfishness displayed by some of the folks amazes me.

Sorry have to say it. having sex with a poz person can be very safe, but condoms break, and accidents happen. that said I know the risk is there with supposed neg guys but at the end of the day they might actually be neg, where as with the poz guy I know 100% he is poz. the risk is lower. be safe, always wrap it up, but sorry to say I won't sleep with poz men. and don't you dare call me ignorant, I date a poz guy saw how much anxiety it caused me and how much pain that caused him and realized what will work for me.

That said, always wrap it up. Condoms man condoms. as for the study about being undetectable for 6 months and not passing it on, that was one study in sweden with str8 people, it does not necessarily correlate to our community.

dakuk said

Triggerman said-

BUT, we could end this stupid virus in a year. If everyone that has it decides right now that we will stop it, we can. Never have sex with anyone, anyone, ever, again. Harsh, yes, but it would stop the virus from spreading. Jack off, do whatever, but stop having sex with anyone. I know that is harsh, but it would stop the spread of HIV in one generation. Stop it cold turkey. I know that is harsh, but it would be dead. HIV passes from one to another during sex. Stop having sex. Ever. Make it your gift to your Gay brothers.

that's a good idea triggerman. or maybe could round up all the people with hiv and put them in camps on special islands far away? and then we could go after all people with all the other sexual diseases and what about anyone with any disease? round 'em up, ship 'em out! or in fact anyone that you take a dislike to, the fatties, the blacks? oh, and wait a minute, what about the queers?


grow up you dickhead!

Maybe he is a fan of Mike Huckabee--who said people with AIDS/HIV should be isolated, in 1991. He still hasn't denounced that statement to this day.

Measles, polio, mumps, were virtually wiped out through common disease control practice.

In the case of HIV, it's like illegal immigration: to late for containment of any real value.

Now, with folks not getting their kid's shots, some of these diseases have re-emerged.

Containment is critical part of disease control, like it, or not.

Why should we be fighing back and forth? There is ignorance all around both HIV- and HIV+ guys (myself included).

I think we can all agree on a segment of society which is partly to blame for the continuation of barebacking, guys lying/not knowing about HIV status, not getting tested often, etc.

Social Conservatives.

They want to take out gay sex-ed from schools and teach hetero-abstiance-only sex-ed.

eb925guy said

What's most interesting to me here is that here's a group of gay men who have very differing degrees of knowledge and understanding about HIV. If the gay men in our society have such a struggle, no wonder society in general is confused, overwhelmed and uneducated about HIV.

It is scary, but what I have found is that what I don't know is what is the scariest to me. Little by little though, I'm learning that my ignorance does not have to result in the fears that I perceive.

How even-tempered and thoughtful of you... as usual.

Most apprehension negative guys have of being with positive guys is somewhat irrational and are driven entirely by a lack of education and fear. Even with the few rational arguments that can be mustered up against guys who are positive, love is hardly rational, and many of us seem perfectly willing to look at a person and see only their HIV-status. To me, this approach has always been beyond contempt.

Chizzad saidI guess being HIV + it is easy for you to start such a topic asking why why why. I actually think this is a very selfish topic since, afterall, you are no longer at risk because you are positive. I would never knowingly engage in such a terrible decision as to having sex with someone that is HIV + and it has nothing to do with the person in whole but the disease. HIV knows no boundaries, limits, color, sexual orientation, or sex. It is a ruthless killer and I get to see what it does to people every now and then through the medical calls that we run. Don't expect people to put themselves in harms way simply because they "might could" love you. I know you may have had no control of contracting this disease but most likely you did. Don't expect others to disregard their health just to be with someone such as yourself.

Well Chizzad you did not start off your post on a good note. HIV+ people are very much at risk still. Not all HIV viruses are the same. Some are more virulent then others. Some men have developed drug resistant strains of the virus. So if you are HIV+ your sexual behavious should not change if you have sex with another HIV+ man.

I agree with your statement that we all have some control over becoming infected. Just like we all have some control about not getting injured or killed in a car accident. It is all about risk management. If you do not want HIV then I recommend the following in order of least risky to of greatest risk:

- do not have sex period, that is the safest option;

- stick to mutual masturbation;

- stick to oral sex only using a condom;

- have unprotected oral sex but protected anal sex;

I probably became infected from unprotected oral sex. Do not believe what you read about unprotected oral sex being almost negligible in terms of risk. The jury is still out on that assertion. Read up on how to minimize the risk of unprotected oral sex, and remember that pre-cum has as high a concentration of HIV as cum.

If you really want to have a sex life where there are not a lot restrictions, then find a guy to settle down with who is also HIV- and is willing to stay monogamous. I personally would still insist on protection, but you never know there are some people out there like me who are not interested in cheating on their partner (if I did I would tell him before hand).

I dated a poz guy and his status was no problem for me. I felt comfortable having unprotected oral sex, deep kissing, sweating together and more. We always wrapped it up when we had anal sex. And eating ass was fine as long as we were both super clean.

He was on meds and it didn't disrupt his life or his energy. He was very healthy and his medical tests were always very good (undetectable).

I don't hear about guys dying from AIDS anymore. They say that the damage the meds can do to the body is still not understood (heart disease, etc.). But the way I figure, anyone can develop a physical health condition from anything at anytime.

He was HIV positive, but I never thought of him as being sick or having a disease.

We broke up for reasons unrelated to his status. He was a great guy and I'm glad I knew him.

cjsscuba1984 said

"Why should we be fighting back and forth? There is ignorance all around both HIV- and HIV+ guys (myself included)."

Heated words perhaps, and fighting among ourselves, sure. But look at this:






'At Pirene’s Fountain, it is our hope that we can share of each other’s knowledge, and in the spirit of Ancora Imparo –“ I am still learning,” open our hearts and minds to inspiration.'

Here's a little conspiracy hypothetical:

Imagine that HIV and AIDS was man-made. A cure is very possible, but the people in charge (the MAN) wants it to carry out as a sort of population control. As if this world doesn't keep getting more populated every day. The cure will never come to fruition so those that live their lives so reckless and irresponsible, even in this Age of Information, may deal with their consequences. Do you want become one of these many 'death-sentence' rebels for one night of fun? ONE NIGHT OF FUN.

It can cost you your lifetime health and longevity.

To keep it simple:

I'd have no problem dating someone who is positive. The real question is who is this person, what kind of habits do they have today, does there exist a strong bond between us, is there mutual honesty and respect....

if all checks I wouldn't pass up the opportunity to mix with a great person simply because of their HIV status. Its a calculated risk like the many we take daily...be responsible and take the necessary preventative measures.
Life is good...live well.

underwhere saidHere's a little conspiracy hypothetical:

Imagine that HIV and AIDS was man-made. A cure is very possible, but the people in charge (the MAN) wants it to carry out as a sort of population control. As if this world doesn't keep getting more populated every day. The cure will never come to fruition so those that live their lives so reckless and irresponsible, even in this Age of Information, may deal with their consequences. Do you want become one of these many 'death-sentence' rebels for one night of fun? ONE NIGHT OF FUN.

It can cost you your lifetime health and longevity.

Definitely among the top 10 whackiest RJ forum posts.

- HIV is not man-made;

- Millions is being spent on a vaccine;

- Viruses have been around longer than humans;

- Many people who become infected did not do so out of "reckless" behaviour;

- It is not a "death-sentence" anymore for many HIV+ people;

- there are other diseases out there that are far worse than HIV (e.g. ebola).

If people are worried about overpopulation there are far easier ways to control it. It is called birth control.

Coolb944, jaded57, and SurrealLife, thanks for opening up and sharing. In my experience, we in the gay community tend to treat HIV/AIDS like the straight world often treats gays -- like a vague threat that we know is out there, but isn't ever gonna effect us, and maybe if we ignore that big ol' elephant maybe -- just maybe -- it will go away and leave us alone.

I'd like to believe I'm an invulnerable little saint, and not one of "those people" who could ever contract HIV. 'Course, I also wish the state of Alaska would sink into the Arctic so I don't have to pay back my student loans anymore, but that's just as silly and naive a pipedream. Back in the real world, I know HIV/AIDS will not go away, not one of us is as perfect as we so self-righteously declare ourselves to be (really, if we were all that careful, there's no reason HIV/AIDS should still be a threat, right???), and that the best defense is, well, knowledge.

You are discriminated against. We all are. People fear what they don't understand.

You've open yourselves up to a shitstorm of hypocrisy and criticism by disclosing your status and participating in this discussion here, but thanks for that. We all need to think about it.

To answer the question, coolb944, I honestly don't know. It's not a situation I've ever faced. I'd like to say I could be open-minded and do it, but until actually faced with the issue, I can't say with 100% certainty what I'd do.

I'm a firm believer in safe sex, and to me anyone could be positive even if they state otherwise. Even if they showed me their test results from last week, they could've slept with half a dozen other people who happened to be positive and contracted it then for all I know.

That being said, I would not write off a person because of their HIV status. There was a time where I wasn't as open minded to it, but the reality is that being sexually active today is risky. A lot of people just aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions, and if someone did take enough responsibility to let me know he was positive. I certainly would not hold that over his head.

Runninchlt saidI'm a firm believer in safe sex, and to me anyone could be positive even if they state otherwise. Even if they showed me their test results from last week, they could've slept with half a dozen other people who happened to be positive and contracted it then for all I know.

That being said, I would not write off a person because of their HIV status. There was a time where I wasn't as open minded to it, but the reality is that being sexually active today is risky. A lot of people just aren't willing to take responsibility for their actions, and if someone did take enough responsibility to let me know he was positive. I certainly would not hold that over his head.

That is a good frame of mind to be in. I assume the worse when it comes to human behaviour and sex. I know of two guys that have contracted HIV from their supposedly HIV- and "faithful" partners. I know how hard it is for some men to discipline their sex drives. Remember that RJ members the next time you have sex with a guy. Most men love to have sex, alot and with many different partners. Even if they limit the number of partners they have, it only takes one to become infected.

If either one of us had been HIV+ it wouldn't have much difference except that unsafe activity wouldn't have eventually happened. The entire history of our being together and bonding in the way we did (read our first posts here) would have happened in exactly the same way as it would be just as important to know that neither of us would risk the other in any fashion throughout the rest of our lives together..

A case in point is when Bill, on a construction site in the Downtown Eastside, stepped on a used needle. Right into his foot it went (his shoe sole had nearly worn through). We went back to no iffy contact for a year, as easy as blinking. Another incidence was wresting with an HIV+ friend, who, very excited, for some reason, bit! Taking no chances, even the slimmest (neurotic us), we went though another year of tests - just to be sure. Our friend was horrified but we loved him with hugs so he'd know it was OK...and asked he not bite anyone in future. Never told him about the ensuing testing as the poor guy felt bad enough already.

It is not responsible for a negative guy to expose himself to a positive guy. It is irresponsible to expect society to foot the bill of HIV infection which is currently over 1/2 million bucks.

A far more interesting question is, as a gay man would you fuck a man you weren't sure was 100% free of any/all STDs, including HIV? This is my own opinion but I think gay men only get righteous and "protectionist" when confronted with someone pos.; we're far more willing to "not think about it" with a casual hook-up...and if we're honest, very few of us can say we knew absolutely the health status of the guys we fucked.

We have to remember that everyone has a life before we meet them, which also means they have a past...contained within that may be things which will try our patience, test our strenght, and break our ignorance. That said, love is worth it and if you meet someone who can give it to you, don't kid yourself that opportunities for it will present themselves to you readily once you turn away. 2 cents.

(PS: I've had two friends, both younger than me, die of non-sexual related causes (murder and car accident) and its really helped me to see that not only does no one live forever, but that mortality is a reality for us all with disease no determination for when and where.)

Alpha13 saidIt is not responsible for a negative guy to expose himself to a positive guy. It is irresponsible to expect society to foot the bill of HIV infection which is currently over 1/2 million bucks.

Oh brother. Why is HIV any different then cancer or heart disease or car accidents as a result of bad driving? I have never met a person who did not do something that was in some way potentially bad for his or her health.

"It is not responsible for a negative guy to expose himself to a positive guy." So I guess you are celibate. Must be tough at times, otherwise I don't know how you could make such a blanket statement.

i have had an hiv-poz boyfriend. i have had hiv-poz lovers. you're naïve if you think you haven't. i don't actively pursue poz guys, but i also don't immediately reject them for their status alone. there are far, far too many awesome guys who happen to be poz for me to dismiss them out of hand. besides, alot of the poz guys i know are way healthier than many the neg guys i know.

Wow, since I went to bed and woke up, this post has exploded, and I've been very intently reading every response to my post.

I can't think where to begin.

First off, a little disclosure about myself. I'm NOT removing myself of blame for my own situation. I made the decision to have unprotected sex with that one guy, so, in part, my situation now is a direct result of my own actions. I KNOW this. You guys don't have to tell me that.

Second, the guy told me he was negative. He was being honest, and we had had a discussion about status and health beforehand. When my test finally came back positive, we were not seeing each other anymore. I couldn't get back in touch with him even though I tried, and I can only hope that he got tested and found out he was positive too, or, worse I really hope he wasn't stone cold lying to me. But, to give him the benefit of the doubt, he honestly thought he was negative, and that wasn't the case. This highlights the need for all guys to get tested regularly. Many guys don't get tested for fear of the results because they know they behaved in a risky manner. PLEASE, just get tested, and be honest with everyone, for yours and other's health.

Third, I'm sorry, but sero-sorting is an imperfect method. A lot of those guys who think they're neg aren't, and worse, some guys know they're poz and still put neg. That's infuriating to me, and I truly can't stand that dishonesty. But I also understand where it comes from, because they're afraid of people like some of those on this post. All HIV+ men should be totally and completely sexless? Really!? How about those with herpes, or Hepatitis? Shouldn't they be too then? Or why don't you just round us up like cattle and lock us away somewhere. That is a truly insensitive and selfish view, and you may not care about how other people feel. That is a statement that also implies some sort of moral high-ground that