I just saw this on the WRONG site. it was some horrible red-neck war loving site. They were slamming the makers of the ad, the people in it, and everyone against the war...pricks.
I think the ad makes for an excellent counter attack by John McCain.
First off, when Alex is of military age, it will be his decision to serve or not serve. Unless of course the Congressional Democrats get their way and reinstate the draft.
We Republicans don't want draftees serving in our military.
Then there's the issue of; what makes her Alex so special?
And finally, Does this Mother think she can control her son when he's eighteen? And if she does, does that indicate the typical control freak nature of the Democratic party?
John, I think this is why the Republicans are going to lose this election. Thanks for clarifying the debate.
If the ad was somehow about the son's choice to join the army or something, you'd almost have a point.
But it's about fighting in a preemptive war. She doesn't want her son in a war, and she'll vote for the candidate most likely to ensure it won't happen. How will this prevent him from entering military service? It won't. So what's your point about Democrats being control freaks?
I think some people pose as being pro-war as they think it makes them seem more butch, tough, macho when in reality it just makes them seem like someone posing.
You have to be a moron to want to go someplace where bullets are flying and bombs are dropping or popping in the ground. It doesn't make you tough, it makes you an idiot.
It doesn't make you courageous, either. Courage that comes from the trigger side of a gun (or it's equivalent) is pussy courage.
Al Qaeda just loves guys like you, you give them hope. The Change you support is a stronger Al Qaeda terrorist network, and a nukyular Iran.
The fact still remains, it's the Democrats who would draft Lil Alex, not us Republicans. If lil Alex doesn't wanna serve, he isn't needed anyway.
Lucky for us most people weren't like you guys in the early 40s, the Nazis and the Japs would still be fighting along the Mississippi river over control of the continent.
I'd guess AQ loves you more, John. They're probably thrilled that our econ sucks, we have a functional illiterate as chief of staff and are paying through the nose at the pump. I'd say they want you to suck them off to prove how much they love you. Not to mention how the US military machine keeps proving how ineffective they are against the current mode of warfare.
John43620 saidLucky for us most people weren't like you guys in the early 40s, the Nazis and the Japs would still be fighting along the Mississippi river over control of the continent.
John, Bush attacked Iraq (which had no connection to Al Qaeda) before securing the victory in Afghanistan, and now the Taliban is retaking the country.
So, to borrow from your analogy, if Bush had been president in the 40s/50s, we'd have been bogged down in a ground war with the Soviets while the Nazis were retaking Germany.
It looks like you two just don't keep up on current events, Al Qaeda is getting a major butt kicking in Iraq. Iraq is destroying Al Qaeda. The Taliban captured two villages last week and NATO took them back and killed a lot of Taliban fighters doing so. The Taliban are nowhere near taking over Afghanistan.
It is true that Al Qaeda probably wasn't in Iraq when we invaded, but Saddam supported many of the same terrorists groups that fall under the Al Qaeda network of scumbags. Iraq became a magnet for Al Qaeda and they've lost thousands of fighters and even more deserted and left Al Qaeda. Terrorists are all about PR and Iraq has been some seriously bad PR for Al Qaeda.
The invasion of Iraq is a success story. Well, for those of us who enjoy freedom and liberty. You Democrats backed the losing side, Al Qaeda, just like you did the Soviet Union.
You're right, John. Iraq is a success story. It was on the front page of the New York Times just yesterday. The 5 major US oil companies are on the verge of getting no bid contracts on Iraq's oil. This was the reason Bush went in, and now he has what he wanted. Iraq is a success story. Blood for oil, that's something to be proud of, John.
This is to John. Damn you get on my nerves with your patriotism toward Bush. It's been so apparent that so many Republicans don't care for him either, but you.... you sound a tad short of a few marbles when you glorify him and blame the Democrats for our country's dismal state.
As I recall, years ago the Bush administration created a lot of cutbacks for the benefits received by war veterans. I personally think that this is wrong. Factor this in and any educated person is not going to want to serve in the military. The majority of people that do wind up in the military tend to be high school kids that are from lower class families. Their attitude is not about defending our country. What's going on in their minds is that many of them feel that they don't have any other option to make anything of themselves. College is not an option for a variety of reasons so they go into the military because they find it better than working some remedial job at minimum wage with the hopes that after serving their lives will be better.
I'm not saying that I agree with a draft. But when there is a draft you get people from all different walks of life. From higher upper income families to lower end. Regardless if a draft exists or if you want to brag that Republics won't require a draft you're getting a lot of young people that are in the armed services for the wrong reasons.
I don't know why you put Bush on a pedestal. As far as he is concerned you are sinner for being gay and immoral. As a gay male you have less rights than straights do and he'd like to keep it that way.
In addition to issues involving inequality and cutbacks for military veterans, he rejects proposals for new laws that have to do with environmental protection of our planet and you sit there with a blind eye and make the war the focus of your arguments.
If you're so gung-ho about the fight against Al Queda go to the middle east and fight yourself. I don't care if you're 50, I'm sure you can do something in the military like office work since you're so full of patriotism toward Bush.
If you're so supportive of the Bush Administration's efforts and you could be 19 again would you go and join the armed services instead of going to college for your broadcast journalism degree? My guess is no. Just like any Republican who has a college education you yourself won't go but you'll happily send kids who lived less privileged lives that grew up in low income families to fight for your cause. Meanwhile you sit on your soapbox and talk ill of Democrats and blame them for all the problems within the U.S.
You're right, John. Iraq is a success story. It was on the front page of the New York Times just yesterday. The 5 major US oil companies are on the verge of getting no bid contracts on Iraq's oil.
John43620 saidAl Qaeda just loves guys like you, you give them hope. The Change you support is a stronger Al Qaeda terrorist network, and a nukyular Iran.
The fact still remains, it's the Democrats who would draft Lil Alex, not us Republicans. If lil Alex doesn't wanna serve, he isn't needed anyway.
Lucky for us most people weren't like you guys in the early 40s, the Nazis and the Japs would still be fighting along the Mississippi river over control of the continent.
John, Al Qaeda terrorists are everywhere, not only in Iraq. Bin Laden used to work for CIA against the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Even President Bush said Saddam or Iraq have nothing to do with 9/11 or Al Qaeda. So far, many our troops are dying each day. This is enough sending our U.S. troops in Iraq and have them get kill. We know the war in Iraq really hurt our US economy. This is like we are back in the Vietnam war. We are recycling the history again. The war’s cost about $10 trillion so far.
what's funny about the entire situation to me is that the US is in negotiations with Iraq over over the new security agreement that expired. The US wants the right to set up a lot more bases than the Iraqis are comfortable with and obviously more foreign troops than the iraqis want. The question of immunity from prosecution is also in question. The US wants all contractors to be immune when it comes to iraqi law, and also wants to freely detain iraqi citizens without consent of the iraqi government.
I haven't seen too much press over this lately...
Is it still considered defeat if the Iraqi's want us to start letting them run their own country?
I think you miss the point of the commercial. Or, at least, you miss the target audience. The target audience is. . . Mom. No mother wants her child to go to war. Period. Particularly a relatively young Mom with young children -- one who's looking down the road a few years. And particularly a war as highly questionable as this one (opposed by 70% of Americans). The comments from the Mom in the commercial are probably a reasonable representation of that reality. Actually, it's a pretty effective spot.
I think it was Eleanor Roosevelt who said (paraphrasing here): "If all the mothers in the world organized, there would never be another war anytime, anywhere." She might've been right.
Immunity would be ideal for them, but since contractors aren't likely to get that any time soon might they be willing to settle for Sharia law? Blackwater, the para-military contracting firm is asking that a lawsuit for the unlawful death of three people be decided by Islamic Sharia law because the crime took place in Afghanastan.
So does it make me a bad person because I'm seriously considering serving in the Canadian Forces after I'm done university because they offer the job in counter-terrorism I so very much want?
It's not just the uneducated that join the military.
Why even debate these points? Homosexuals will overwhelmingly vote democratic regardless of the candidate. The best arguments will only be spun to fit one's belief system. It's an exercise in futility.
655,000: Iraqi deaths a Johns-Hopkins study attributed to the war nine months ago.
2770: Iraqi civilians killed in May 2007, according to government reports. (Actual figure unknown because the Iraqi government refuses to share its data with outside agencies that could verify totals.)
1.9 million: Estimated Iraqis displaced within the country.
2.35 million: Estimated Iraqi exiles outside the country in January 2007.
18,000: Iraqi doctors who have fled the country since March 2003.
???: Iraqis orphaned by the war – no reliable statistics.
25%: Iraqi children who are malnourished (May 2006).
130,000: U.S. troops taking part in the invasion at Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld's insistence.
500,000: U.S. troops estimated to be necessary by generals who put together a prewar contingency plan.
$60-$95 billion: Total cost of Iraq war and aftermath calculated by Paul Wolfowitz in February 2003.
$600 billion: Money Congress has allocated for direct costs of the war and occupation so far.
$750 billion: Total the Cheney-Bush Administration has sought for keeping the occupation going through September 2008.
$140,000: Estimated cost per minute of the war and occupation in 2007.
$2 trillion: Total direct and indirect costs of war and occupation (through 2010) calculated by Joseph Stiglitz and Linda Blimes in January 2006.
$9 billion: Taxpayer money that disappeared in Iraq.
$549.7 million: Value of unaccounted for spare parts shipped to contractors in 2004.
$1.4 billion: Overcharges by Halliburton.
6,000-10,000: Estimated number of U.S. troops whose injuries have included brain trauma.
30%: Estimated percentage of troops who develop serious mental problems within three or four months after returning from Iraq.
14: Journalists killed by U.S. forces in Iraq.
112: Total number of journalists killed in Iraq.
1-2 a day: Hours of electricity available to the average residential household in Baghdad. (Actual figure unknown since U.S. no longer reports the electricity figures for the city.)
5000: "Diehard" insurgents the Pentagon estimated to be fighting on July 28, 2003.
20-30,000: Insurgents the Pentagon estimated in October 2006.
70,000: Insurgents the Pentagon estimated in March 2007.
69%: Iraqis who say U.S. presence worsens security situation (polled in March 2007).
71%: Iraqis who want U.S. troops out within a year (polled in September 2006).
71%: Americans who want U.S. to withdraw troops by April 2008 (polled in July 2007).
52%: U.S. Senators who have voted to withdraw most troops by April 2008.
8%: Republican Senators who have voted to withdraw most troops by April 2008
If this is what "success" in Iraq looks like to anybody, I don't want to know what they think failure is. Al Qaida may be finished in Iraq, but then, they were never IN that country until we invaded, so what, exactly, did we achieve?
Meanwhile, the fact that the Taliban can still launch attacks in battalion strength, raise cash, recruit fighters and control territory THIS long after we moved in to oust them should tell you something about the scale of just how f*cked up things are in Afganistan.
Oh, and does anyone remember the original premise for invading Iraq in the first place? And how it turned out to be outright bullshit. Alex's mom is right not to want to send her son off to war; not for this.
John43620 said...Al Qaeda is getting a major butt kicking in Iraq...You Democrats backed the losing side, Al Qaeda, just like you did the Soviet Union.
This is why Republicans will lose. You think a commercial about war is about the troops. You think a war for oil is about Al Qaeda. Sure Al Qaeda is getting their butt kicked; they were never a big threat in Iraq.
You can't amputate an arm to get rid of a rash and call yourself a successful dermatologist. It appears math is your biggest enemy.
BioMatty saidSo does it make me a bad person because I'm seriously considering serving in the Canadian Forces after I'm done university because they offer the job in counter-terrorism I so very much want?
It's not just the uneducated that join the military.
You'll get a nice gig with good pay and a way to use your brain for good.
Young recruits who get snagged walking across the Wal-Mart parking lot aren't as lucky.
crispro saidHomosexuals will overwhelmingly vote democratic regardless of the candidate.
Yes, those silly homosexuals, turning out in droves to vote against the party that thinks they should all get AIDS or go back in the closet. What CAN they be thinking?
John43620 saidThe point is, Senator McCain can come back and let the mother's know that he won't "Take" their child but the Democrats have proven that they will. It was a poor chess move on "Move-On's" part.
Well, you're entitled to your dreams, but the latest polls show Obama kicking the crap out of McCain. It seems the independents aren't fooled anymore, even if you still are.
jprichva, It doesn't really matter, I like Obama but he will be a disaster. In four years as president even you won't be able to stand him. Just watch and see.
Obama is only 15 points ahead in the polls and McCain can make that up.
McCain will be good for the country and Obama won't but you can't be convinced. I guarantee you will regret supporting Obama though if he's elected.
Back to Lil Alex, I knew about the Democrats trying to reinstate the draft from college. I had to have three fine arts classes so I took drama for two. My professor was complaining that the Republicans were trying to reinstate the draft. That's how I looked into it. A lot of Americans are ignorant of the fact that the Democrats tried to reinstate the draft and were shot down by the Republicans. This Move-On ad gives McCain a break.
I'm wondering if when Alex's mother finds out it's the Democrats will she say "Oh, OK, sure you can have him". How will the writers spin that?
Nobody is going to 'take' Alex. We have a volunteer army... for the time being. Too bad for that mom, but it won't be her choice to say that the army 'can't have him.'
John43620 said I guarantee you will regret supporting Obama though if he's elected.
You're probably right, though not for the reason you think. In fact, Obama has a deeply conservative streak (note his support of this FISA bill disaster), and, like Bill Clinton, whose conservatism I didn't care for either, I expect he will annoy me by being too conciliatory to the right.
You know, I bought a tortilla the other day, and to my great surprise, an image of Josef Stalin was etched right into it. I saved it, of course. How should I interpret this sign?
jprichva, ummm, perhaps you should like, worship it and call the national enquierer. Share it with the true believers. Maybe they'll showcase it at the Democratic National Convention.
I think that overwelmingly the public sees this ad about Alex, for exactly what it is meant for, to show that she doesn't want her son to fight for some war for which the stated purpose was a total "SHAM". These off tracks, about she won't have a choice when Alex turns 18, and its the dems who wanted the draft, blah, blah, blah !!! aren't even picked up by any but the fox news crowd who don't want to accept the "NEWS BASED ON REALITY"anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Jewboy got it right !!! the only winning has to do with bush getting no-bid contracts for his and cheney's oil buddy's to go back in business in Iraq. What do you bet that this return was one of the main topics in cheney's secret meeting setting up energy policy with the big oil giant co's. YEP !!! THEY WIN ALRIGHT !!! THANKS TO BLIND FOLLOWERS OF THE BUSHIES!!!!!!!!!!! I WONDER HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE THE CHRISTIAN RIGHT TO FIGURE OUT THAT bush/cheney HAVE STUCK "IT" UP THEIR ASSES AND ARE TWISTING WITH ALL THEIR STRENGTH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! AND LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANKS !!!
John43620 saidjprichva, It doesn't really matter, I like Obama but he will be a disaster. In four years as president even you won't be able to stand him. Just watch and see.
Of course nobody will be able to stand him! He'll be the president! The point is, he'll be able to do more good for the country than the other asshole up for the job. It amazes me that you fart on numbers twist words until you prove yourself right in your own mind on every subject. We're facing a depression in our country and are for some reason STILL more concerned with other countries than ourselves! Middle class America is falling into poverty while we waste more and more money trying to fight a war when over half of our population doesnt even know what its about. I still cant get over the fact that its a "war on terrorism," its just like the war on drugs, waging war against an idea. Pointless.
I understand that we're over there and pulling all of our troops out is an awful idea... but we're not making any progress. Something needs to be done.
AND WHAT THE HELL IS "nukyular"!?!?!? Is that a republican spelling?
Realifedad, ahh you're just pissed because "Move-On" paid a fortune for that ad and it is so easily shot down and turned around. Most people weren't aware that the Democrats tried to pass a bill to reinstate the draft, until now.
You young RJers who are opposed to military service yet support the Democrats need to rethink your position. Under the Democrats they'd have you screwing up a perfectly good Army.
"Here’s what the mother of an actual soldier has to say about the remarks of the mother of the prospective non-soldier in the ad:
“Does that mean that she wants other people’s sons to keep the wolves at bay so that her son can live a life of complete narcissism? What is it she thinks happens in the world? ... Someone has to stand between our society and danger. If not my son, then who? If not little Alex then someone else will have to stand and deliver. Someone’s son, somewhere.”"
The biggest and most crippling fault of the ad is that Alex's mom says John McCain "can't have him."
First, John McCain won't have him because if McCain gets two terms, Alex will be nine years old at the end of those terms.
Second, and this point has already been made, America has a volunteer army. It's ultimately Alex's choice.
Third, someone else will have to "stand and deliver" and it's selfish of her to say "not my son."
The strongest and most convincing point made by the ad is the fact that John McCain stated we might be in Iraq for 100 years as a military presence as long as there are no injuries or casualties. Come on McCain, in such a hostile part of the world, is that realistic?
Bin Laden is still on the loose and there's no exit strategy or end in sight for the war in Iraq. 'Nuff said.
John43620: "...typical control-freak nature of the Democratic party..." "Al Qaeda just loves guys like you..." "...the Democrats have proven they will 'take' Alex..." "Obama will be a disaster..."
Please do not interpret my following statement as hostile or aggressive. I'm simply stating what I have observed. 1) You like to generalize and demonize the Democrats and Democratic party as if they are the bad guys and Republicans are the good guys. Please stop being so condescending. 2) You have failed to provide any proof to support any of your opinions. For example, the Democrats tried to pass a bill to re-instate the draft? Show me. Show us. Where's the transcript of the session of Congress in which this bill was introduced, described, and then voted on? 3) Take note of the quotes from you I posted above. You'd be more convincing in your statements if you presented yourself more as someone who is objective, rather than opinionated.
What I like most about this poignant ad focusing on little "Alex", is that its made such an impact, in such a simple down to earth way, that its point on the falicies of bush/mccain war policy just leaves them with nothing real to say, and therefore has just "PISSED OFF" off the right to no end !!! The truth of the war matter is hard for them to take !!!
I think the ad underscores a prevailing sense in the US that the Republican party has co-opted the feel-good messages of family, freedom and patriotism to promote a stealth agenda that, despite rumor and innuendo, remains somewhat opaque. Are the Republicans looking to control world oil markets? Are the various global socio-economic crises manufactured to some diabolical end? Maybe, maybe not. What is tangible, though, is a sense of mistrust in the current administration. History will be the judge, of course, but even some conservatives are wondering if they've been duped by an administration that promised fiscal responsibility, ethics in government and fair and open markets. This ad plays upon such doubts.
ruck_us saidI think the ad underscores a prevailing sense in the US that the Republican party has co-opted the feel-good messages of family, freedom and patriotism to promote a stealth agenda that, despite rumor and innuendo, remains somewhat opaque. Are the Republicans looking to control world oil markets? Are the various global socio-economic crises manufactured to some diabolical end? Maybe, maybe not. What is tangible, though, is a sense of mistrust in the current administration. History will be the judge, of course, but even some conservatives are wondering if they've been duped by an administration that promised fiscal responsibility, ethics in government and fair and open markets. This ad plays upon such doubts.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Good point !!! and to go along with what you say here----today I read that a republican senator (sorry i forgot his name) was saying that Rove (in reference to Rove being the "architect for bush success") actually is the cause of the demise of the Republican party. So as you said, there is a lot of distrust of this republican administration, and even prominant republicans are recognizing it.
The Military isn't a sports club, it's warfare, it's volunteer, and you will kill or be killed while in the Military. Anyone with half a brain knows this.
I think the ad is a 'vote for Republicans and they will sneak into your nursery and steal your baby' boogeyman crap. Do it for the children, do it for Alex.
The Iraq war is and was a scam. It was all lies and bullshit from the get go.
If Obama gets elected people will be disappointed simply because they pin the hopes of the world on him. He's just a man, maybe a good man, maybe a poor one, but he will never live up to the hopes others have for him because they are never ending.
I agree Buckwheat !!! I'd hate to be in Obama's shoes when he becomes President with the list of expectations he's got to match up to.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>and I am proud to see that I agree with John43620 for the first time this MONTH OF JUNE, IN THE "YEAR OF OUR LORD KING GEORGE" 2008---------LOL !!!!!!!!!!
The little Alex ad is played a lot here in the People's Democratic Socialist Republik of Toledo, Lucas county is guaranteed Democrat turf. Crack whores on welfare and union thugs are the main constituency here.
For anyone really upset by the 'Alex' ad, take heart! The right wing's already painted Obama as a (It's hard to keep it all straight because there's been so much) closet muslim, most-liberal-senator, not-the-right-kind of Christian, elite, martini-drinking, OBama/OSama, extremist with a black agenda, who Fox News said should be assassinated and doesn't fit in with Joe Six-pack at the non-existant Appleby's salad bar kind of guy.
And there's still 4 whole months to go! The Republican slime machine hasn't even warmed up to peak operating temperature yet. They're sure to come up with something as 'poignant' as "John Kerry's a traitor/coward/flip-flopper", "Max Cleland the war veteran is on the side of Osama", or "John McCain is insane and has a black baby."
