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Now that Obama is the Democratic nominee I wanted to post this long list of his accomplishments as a public servant.

His College experience and career:

Upon finishing high school, Obama studied for two years at Occidental College in California, before transferring to Columbia University in New York City. There he majored in political science, with a specialization in international relations. Upon graduation, he moved to Chicago, where he took up community organizing in the Altgeld Gardens housing project on the city's South Side. While in Chicago, he joined the Trinity United Church of Christ.

He left Chicago for three years to study law at Harvard University, where he was elected the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated Magna Cum Laude. While working one summer at a corporate law firm in 1989, Obama met Michelle Robinson, whom he married in 1992. Robinson is also a graduate of Harvard Law.

While in Chicago as a community organizer once again, Obama organized an aggressive voter registration effort that aided in the election of President Bill Clinton and Senator Carol Moseley Braun. The campaign registered over 100,000 voters. Soon after, his talents earned him a position at a local civil rights law firm, and he became a lecturer of constitutional law at the University of Chicago, where he served as a professor until his election to the U.S. Senate.

Barack Obama and Politics

Illinois General Assembly:

In 1996, Obama was elected to the Illinois State Senate from the south side neighborhood of Hyde Park, in Chicago. He served as chairman of the Public Health and Welfare Committee when the Democrats regained control of the chamber. The Chicago Tribune called him "one of the General Assembly's most impressive members."

Regarded as a staunch liberal during his tenure in the legislature, he helped to author a state Earned Income Tax Credit which provided benefits to the working poor. He also worked for legislation that would cover residents who could not afford health insurance. Speaking up for leading gay and lesbian advocacy groups, he successfully helped pass bills to increase funding for AIDS prevention and care programs.

In 2000, he ran unsuccessfully in the Democratic primary for Illinois' 1st Congressional district against incumbent Representative Bobby Rush.

After the loss, Obama rededicated his efforts to the state Senate. He authored one of the most progressive death penalty reform laws in the nation, under the guidance of his mentor, former U.S. Senator Paul Simon. He also pushed through legislation that would force insurance companies to cover routine mammograms.



Accomplishments in the United States Senate:

- Obama passed legislation with Republican Senator Jim Talent to give gas stations a tax credit for installing E85 ethanol refueling pumps. The tax credit covers 30 percent of the costs of switching one or more traditional petroleum pumps to E85, which is an 85 percent ethanol/15 percent gasoline blend.

- After a number of inmates on death row were found innocent, Senator Obama worked with law enforcement officials to require the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases.

- His first law was passed with Republican Tom Coburn, a measure to rebuild trust in government by allowing every American to go online and see how and where every dime of their tax dollars is spent.

- Obama created the Illinois Earned Income Tax Credit for low-income working families in 2000 and successfully sponsored a measure to make the credit permanent in 2003. The law offered about $105 million in tax relief over three years.

- Obama joined forces with former U.S. Sen. Paul Simon (D-IL) to pass the toughest campaign finance law in Illinois history. The legislation banned the personal use of campaign money by Illinois legislators and banned gifts from lobbyists. Before the law was passed, one organization ranked Illinois worst among 50 states for its campaign finance regulations.

- As a member of the Veterans' Affairs Committee, Senator Obama has fought to help Illinois veterans get the disability pay they were promised, while working to prepare the VA for the return of the thousands of veterans who will need care after Iraq and Afghanistan.

- He traveled to Russia with Republican Dick Lugar to begin a new generation of non-proliferation efforts designed to find and secure deadly weapons around the world.

- Obama has been a leading advocate for protecting the right to vote, helping to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act and leading the opposition against discriminatory barriers to voting.

- In the U.S. Senate, Obama introduced the STOP FRAUD Act to increase penalties for mortgage fraud and provide more protections for low-income homebuyers, well before the current subprime crisis began.

- Obama sponsored legislation to combat predatory payday loans, and he also was credited with lobbied the state to more closely regulate some of the most egregious predatory lending practices.

- Barack Obama introduced the Patriot Employer Act of 2007 to provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US; maintain their corporate headquarters in America; pay decent wages; prepare workers for retirement; provide health insurance; and support employees who serve in the military.

- Obama worked to pass a number of laws in Illinois and Washington to improve the health of women. His accomplishments include creating a task force on cervical cancer, providing greater access to breast and cervical cancer screenings, and helping improve prenatal and premature birth services.

- Obama has introduced and helped pass bipartisan legislation to limit the abuse of no-bid federal contracts.

- Obama and Senator Feingold (D-WI) took on both parties and proposed ethics legislation that was described as the "gold standard" for reform. It was because of their leadership that ending subsidized corporate jet travel, mandating disclosure of lobbyists' bundling of contributions, and enacting strong new restrictions of lobbyist-sponsored trips became part of the final ethics bill that was signed into law.

If Obama thinks he has what it takes to be president, then he needs to grow a set and take a stand on hard issues. When he was a member of the Illinois State Senate, he voted "Present" 130 times instead of Yes or No so he could save face. I don't want a President who can't be a man (or a woman) and take a position instead of pandering to whatever group he needs to get reelected.

Check out this article from the New York Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/20/us/politics/20obama.html

RealAmericanHero saidIf Obama thinks he has what it takes to be president, then he needs to grow a set and take a stand on hard issues. When he was a member of the Illinois State Senate, he voted "Present" 130 times instead of Yes or No so he could save face. I don't want a President who can't be a man (or a woman) and take a position instead of pandering to whatever group he needs to get reelected.

Yeah, of over 4,000 votes cast lets just focus on 130 and totally disregard everything else he actually got done.

Oh Jeez.......

As a big Jew boy myself....I wish my choices were not Obama or Mcain.

For me, Obama's vote AGAINST the war resolution on Iraq speaks way louder than anything. Even then he saw the kind of disaster that would lead to.
McCain, on the contrary, voted FOR the war and with Bush 100% of the time for the last two years!

What MORE does anyone need to know?

HOw about a litle more about him besides all the crap that has come out already. Can you really trust a man w/his little experience to run this country? I won't even start on his wife but c'mon. It's like having Michael J Fox runing the country. Puh-leeze.

HellskitchenManNYC saidHOw about a litle more about him besides all the crap that has come out already. Can you really trust a man w/his little experience to run this country? I won't even start on his wife but c'mon. It's like having Michael J Fox runing the country. Puh-leeze.

I tend to agree.. I kind of chuckled with "all the accomplishments of Obama" in the US Senate by CosmicJewBoy.. Some of those were certainly a stretch... and not worthy of someone who's running for President.

But I am willing to give him a chance. Lets see what he offers. We have no choice now.

That list of Obama "accomplishments" is like a padded resume. We've all embellsihed our resumes when we were not quite qualified for a job or any job. The job of President, however, is a bit too important to just fake.

I'm not a McCain lover by any stretch, but if you compare his accomplishments to Obama's "accomplishments", it would be laughable. On that front McCain wins hands down.

If you're voting in terms of public speaking, Obama's the man. Methinks, however, you're just beholden to a party and would praise any democrat.

That's the problem we have NO choice now. If BO had been 100% white or 100% black it wouldn't have mattered to me. I vote for the man or woman. He had a shakey debate style ala that other nut John Kerry....."I have a PLAN".... I'm just gonna say that over and over and not tell you what it is.....
BO IMHO managed, despite his newsworthy downfalls, captured the hearts of liberals (I am one) and people who don't bother to read or listen to anything and just wanteed him in. IMHO Hillary outdid him on the debates and when he's president (and he will be) all the people behind the scenes will be running his tenure as president b/c he has no REAL experience.
I wish I had a diff opinion as he tried so hard to come off as JFK did....but I can't support someone w/such a fishy past. The church, this new thing w/the guy that paid for his house, the people that tried to bomb the white house? AM I INSANE? Why would I vote for him?

HellskitchenManNYC saidHOw about a litle more about him besides all the crap that has come out already. Can you really trust a man w/his little experience to run this country? I won't even start on his wife but c'mon. It's like having Michael J Fox runing the country. Puh-leeze.

I just don't get the experience dillema a lot of people have expressed to me about Obama. The only experience that resembles being president...is being president. My thing is, get somebody who has good judgement, good philosphical priorities and who is smart enough to find competant people for the cabinet posts...a Bush antithesis if you will

As for McCain's 'experience', well, that's what got this country to our current lamentable state, so it's not worth much IMHO.

As for specifics on Obama and McCain's backgrounds, experiences and judgements, it's best to hit credible news sources and make up your own mind.

Are you insane?! Do you know what's going on in the world now? D You really wnat someone w/like 3 yrs experience in the senate to decide what's going to happen?

3 years experience.
2 of which have been campaigning for President.

Not too contrived - Hello !

Never mind Iraq and Iran oil and unemploymeIsrael is a big issue. I don't want a president who decided t wear an Israel pin ONCE when he wanted it to be seen and the threw it away. There are ALOT of issues at hand and I'm sorry, he's not the man to COMMAND and take command of them all. He has a HUGE chip on his shoulder and I think it informs him too much. That's why he even dogged his grandmother who he claims practically raised him.

crispro saidThat list of Obama "accomplishments" is like a padded resume.

Actually, no, it's public record.

HellskitchenManNYC saidHOw about a litle more about him besides all the crap that has come out already. Can you really trust a man w/his little experience to run this country? I won't even start on his wife but c'mon. It's like having Michael J Fox runing the country. Puh-leeze.

Well since we already trusted JFK, then yes. Granted JFK had accomplishment after accomplishment - and many were because of "Papa Joe", but just because someone is inexperienced, you should not immediately pass judgement. You have mentioned earlier that you are a "big Jew boy" where Obama has stated that he will work tirelessly for the safety of Israel and its people. I ask that you Google Obama and Jewish if you are interested several articles come up from the Jerusulam Post and particularly this one about how Obama "gets it"...[url]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1203589810710[/url] (***CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME WHY MY LINKS NEVER WORK LOL...SO ANNOYING)If this is not important to you then no worries however for many people of Jewish heritage, it is crucial to hear this - especially in the times that we are currently in.

As we have seen in the last 8 years with GWB, effective leaders can not be created - they just are. To me, Obama is a welcome change just as Hillary would have been - and POSSIBLY as McCain could be as he has gone against party lines several times (though for the most part will not be working for my needs as a mixed but brown and gay-ish american in a middle tax bracket). We shall see - the times are changing...it will certainly be an interesting election!

Padded resumes are often true, but embellshed to sound way more substantial than what they are.
Just like your sad list.

this is an impressive list for the average American, but not for the leader of the most powerful country in the world.

LaSalle you are right. Ans trust me I wish I could get behing BO and rhetoric. Don't you think the idea of change and a new fronteir appeals to me? Ye sit does big time. And Mcain is no big deal for gays either. Esp after viweing his appearance on Ellen. Of course she totally dropped the ball and didn't reall call him on anything. Of course it wouldn't have made a diff. b/c he is staunch in his opinions. But she SHOULD HAVE taken him to task.
Either way I'm faced w/a hard decision...a democrat I don't belive in or a republican I could never believe in. If O picks Hill for the VP he has my vote. Nuff said.

Good enough is not good enough.

When you hire someone for a job, you choose the better candidate - not the good enough candidate.

On a diff note had we all now been living in Kennedy's time or any othe time, it might be a good choice to take a chance on Obama. There's uts too much at risk, if you're a person who actually thinks about this and doesn't just read his flyers.

crispro saidGood enough is not good enough.

When you hire someone for a job, you choose the better candidate - not the good enough candidate.

Def. but ack....where is our better candidate now?

crispro saidGood enough is not good enough.

When you hire someone for a job, you choose the better candidate - not the good enough candidate.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The Democrat's are going to kick themselves in November when McCain wins at least 40 states.

[quote][cite]LaSalle04

Well since we already trusted JFK, then yes. Granted JFK had accomplishment after accomplishment - and many were because of "Papa Joe", but just because someone is inexperienced, you should not immediately pass judgement
As we have seen in the last 8 years with GWB, effective leaders can not be created - they just are. To me, Obama is a welcome change just as Hillary would have been - and POSSIBLY as McCain could be as he has gone against party lines several times (though for the most part will not be working for my needs as a mixed but brown and gay-ish american in a middle tax bracket). We shall see - the times are changing...it will certainly be an interesting election![/quote]


Papa Joe may have had some swerve in getting him in the public face but JFK got himself elected.
Leaders are...and they are created by themselves. They cretae themselves by honest public service (yeah short on that for most) and yrs of dedication. It doens't matter now, all that matter sis a democrat gets in.

RealAmericanHero said[quote][cite]crispro said[/cite]Good enough is not good enough.

When you hire someone for a job, you choose the better candidate - not the good enough candidate.

I couldn't have said it better myself. The Democrat's are going to kick themselves in November when McCain wins at least 40 states.[/quote]


DON'T say that! OUCH

Yeah I really want a presisent who is friends w/people that tried to bomb washington and then got off on technicalities.

Colbert_Nation saidFor me, Obama's vote AGAINST the war resolution on Iraq speaks way louder than anything. Even then he saw the kind of disaster that would lead to.
McCain, on the contrary, voted FOR the war and with Bush 100% of the time for the last two years!

What MORE does anyone need to know?

Uh... What vote against the war resolution? The one in 2002 that he's always talking about? He wasn't even a Senator in 2002. He trounces around saying, "I never supported the war, unlike Hillary Clinton. She voted for it! I didn't..." Of course you didn't, Barack. You weren't even in the U.S. Senate at the time. What a misleading and disingenuous statement by him to consistantly get away with, no one ever calling him on it. He has been in the U.S. Senate since January 2005. This is just ridiculous.

Sorry folks for stirring up the pot so much, and trust me I don't know everything, but i know what I FEEL.

stonecoldfoxboy said[quote][cite]Colbert_Nation said[/cite]For me, Obama's vote AGAINST the war resolution on Iraq speaks way louder than anything. Even then he saw the kind of disaster that would lead to.
McCain, on the contrary, voted FOR the war and with Bush 100% of the time for the last two years!

What MORE does anyone need to know?

Uh... What vote against the war resolution? The one in 2002 that he's always talking about? He wasn't even a Senator in 2002. He trounces around saying, "I never supported the war, unlike Hillary Clinton. She voted for it! I didn't..." Of course you didn't, Barack. You weren't even in the U.S. Senate at the time. What a misleading and disingenuous statement by him to contstantly get away with, no one ever calling him on it. He has been in the U.S. Senate since January 2005. This is just ridiculous.[/quote]


Actually Hillary has spoken about this and mentioned about what the feeling was about the war at first. FIRST.

Colbert_Nation saidFor me, Obama's vote AGAINST the war resolution on Iraq speaks way louder than anything. Even then he saw the kind of disaster that would lead to.
McCain, on the contrary, voted FOR the war and with Bush 100% of the time for the last two years!

What MORE does anyone need to know?

StoneColdFoxBoy saidUh... What vote against the war resolution? The one in 2002 that he's always talking about? He wasn't even a Senator in 2002. He trounces around saying, "I never supported the war, unlike Hillary Clinton. She voted for it! I didn't..." Of course you didn't, Barack. You weren't even in the U.S. Senate at the time. What a misleading and disingenuous statement by him to contstantly get away with, no one ever calling him on it. He has been in the U.S. Senate since January 2005. This is just ridiculous.

HellskitchenManNYC saidActually Hillary has spoken about this and mentioned about what the feeling was about the war at first. FIRST.

If that is true, she did an absolutely terrible job at it. I watched every Obama-Clinton Debate. In every debate, Obama made some comment about being against the war from the beginning. He made it sound to the feeble-minded viewer that he voted against it. Not once did Hillary Clinton respond by saying, "Barack, you need to stop trying to mislead people. You became a Senator in January 2005. You were not even around to vote or 'be against' anything in 2002 when the rest of us were forced to vote on it. It is very simple for you to say you were 'against it from the beginning'. You weren't there. You didn't have to make the hard decision. You were busy being a state legislator from Illinois, refusing to vote 'YES' or 'NO' on anything controversial. Instead, you spent your time in 2002 voting 'PRESENT' in the Illinois State Senate in Springfield. Senator, I have more balls than you." Damn, had she said that, I would have voted for her... But no, she never mentioned it. She let him get away, time after time misleading the public with his "I was always against the War!" montage. Even Colber_Nation bought into this lie! His post says "Obama's vote AGAINST the war speaks volumes..." Actually, it speaks not a pamphlet, let alone volumes, because it never took place.

NO she sis answer that question before on a debate when she talked about how she voted if i remeber correctly to back the president's invasion until she and the rest fo them found out what was actuaklly happening and going on. It's on tape somewhere. I saw it, I heard it, and she's not the only one saying it.

HellskitchenManNYC saidNO she sis answer that question before on a debate when she talked about how she voted if i remeber correctly to back the president's invasion until she and the rest fo them found out what was actuaklly happening and going on. It's on tape somewhere. I saw it, I heard it, and she's not the only one saying it.

Then she did a piss poor job of it. You got people like Colbert_Nation still spouting off that he "voted against it" blah, blah, blah... Dude wasn't even there. He still, to this day, makes the statement in his speeches. And every time, it is not being discussed as a disingenuous statement.

As Colbert_Nation said, the only experience for being President is being President.

It is kind of a case of the job makes (or unmakes) the Man. Lincoln served one term in Congress, his only elected position. In the 20th Century we have had a mixed bag. Senators: McKinley (good), Harding (bad), Truman (good), Kennedy (fair), Johnson (good) and Nixon (pass). Governors: Teddy Roosevelt (good), Wilson(good), Coolidge (fair), FDR (good), Carter (bad), Reagan (good), Clinton (?) and Bush II (laughable). The remainder were two Cabinet Secretaries (Taft and Hoover), a General (Ike), a Congressman (Ford) and a CIA Director (Bush I).

You places your vote, and you takes your chances. But the US has survived the Good, the Bad and the Indifferent, and we will survive this. The system survives because it is a good system, not ideal, but really servicable.

olden saidAs Colbert_Nation said, the only experience for being President is being President.

It is kind of a case of the job makes (or unmakes) the Man. Lincoln served one term in Congress, his only elected position. In the 20th Century we have had a mixed bag. Senators: McKinley (good), Harding (bad), Truman (good), Kennedy (fair), Johnson (good) and Nixon (pass). Governors: Teddy Roosevelt (good), Wilson(good), Coolidge (fair), FDR (good), Carter (bad), Reagan (good), Clinton (?) and Bush II (laughable). The remainder were two Cabinet Secretaries (Taft and Hoover), a General (Ike), a Congressman (Ford) and a CIA Director (Bush I).

You places your vote, and you takes your chances. But the US has survived the Good, the Bad and the Indifferent, and we will survive this. The system survives because it is a good system, not ideal, but really servicable.

I'm sorry Olden but you can't equate Lincoln's presidency when the civil war or some such was the matter of the day and him working a presidency w/the worries of the INTERNATIONAL world today. Not even any of the presidents u mentioned are good examples of anything b/c there's nothing to judge it against. What there is to judge against is someone w/ANY kind of foreign experience. And I don't mean the Chicago subway sytem. IMHO.

DO you raelly wnat a president in these days learning on the job? Cmon.

To those who are pro-McCain or anti-Obama -- will anything said by someone pro-Obama be able to please you? No. You'll always find some flaw to disagree with. You've probably already made up your mind and will therefore filter all information according to your opinion. This is called bias.

I'd appreciate it if everyone, liberal or conservative, were a little more objective in regards to the candidates.

Atlazeia said
I'd appreciate it if everyone, liberal or conservative, were a little more objective in regards to the candidates.

Right on. That's one of the most intelligent things said in this forum thus far.....except of course for the comments from the dude who started it.

Experience aside, the McCain campaign systematically plays upon society's fears whereas the Obama campaign routinely challenges Americans to rise above them. I'd rather aspire to greatness than cower in the shadows of some vague (manufactured?) threat of impending doom. I think we end up getting what we dwell upon.

Anyway, being a Washington insider (i.e., "experienced") is more of a liability than an asset, IMHO. Although I think McCain is a decent and honorable man, he knows all-too-well how to play the beltway game, and there are more than a few of those detestable earmarks to his credit. I won't run off to Canada or France if McCain is elected, but my confidence in the nation's future will be greatly enhanced w/Obama at the helm. And it's precisely at times of greatest peril that an agent of hope is most needed (e.g., FDR, Churchill, JFK, Lincoln).

(And this comes from a Hillary supporter.)

Atlazeia saidTo those who are pro-McCain or anti-Obama -- will anything said by someone pro-Obama be able to please you? No. You'll always find some flaw to disagree with. You've probably already made up your mind and will therefore filter all information according to your opinion. This is called bias.

I'd appreciate it if everyone, liberal or conservative, were a little more objective in regards to the candidates.

Objectivity comes from knowing the facts and then being able to make on OBJECTIVE decision. DON"t throw that shit around as a sidelines person w/no real thing to say. Bias...you obv. haven't read anything. And YES if someoone COULD convince me why Obama would be a good president, I'd like to hear it. and no nothing stated in this thread so far has done it. Get hip and don't be a sheep and repeat what yr friends tell you. BIAS? Don't belive all you read in Tiger Beat's newest Obama article w/5 fashion posters.

HellskitchenManNYC saidDO you raelly wnat a president in these days learning on the job? Cmon.

(sarcasm) why not, we have one that has had the job for almost 8 years and still hasn't learned and there are plenty of people here that pay him dues like he walks on water (/sarcasm)

You might not know this about me but...umm...I live in NYC....ya know the place where almost 4000 people lost their lives on 9/11. I want a pro to lead us.

FirefighterBlu3 said[quote][cite]HellskitchenManNYC said[/cite]DO you raelly wnat a president in these days learning on the job? Cmon.

(sarcasm) why not, we have one that has had the job for almost 8 years and still hasn't learned and there are plenty of people here that pay him dues like he walks on water (/sarcasm)[/quote

Yeah and I ddin't vote for him which is the only reason I said anything on RJ politically. Normally I don't talk politics but this time the election is TOO important.

ruck_us said
...but my confidence in the nation's future will be greatly enhanced w/Obama at the helm. And it's precisely at times of greatest peril that an agent of hope is most needed (e.g., FDR, Churchill, JFK, Lincoln).

(And this comes from a Hillary supporter.)

I hope that hope is enuf for you and that it all turns out peachy keen!

HellskitchenManNYC saidYou might not know this about me but...umm...I live in NYC....ya know the place where almost 4000 people lost their lives on 9/11. I want a pro to lead us.

Where is FDR when you need him? Fear drives people to do stupid things like give up their civil liberties and elect despots 'n' stuff.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Widely attributed to Benjamin Franklin

HellskitchenManNYC said
I hope that hope is enuf for you and that it all turns out peachy keen!

Shore 'nuff will.

Other than ranting about Obama's lack of experience, what alternatives, exactly, are you offering?

ruck_us saidExperience aside, the McCain campaign systematically plays upon society's fears whereas the Obama campaign routinely challenges Americans to rise above them. I'd rather aspire to greatness than cower in the shadows of some vague (manufactured?) threat of impending doom. I think we end up getting what we dwell upon.

(And this comes from a Hillary supporter.)

Thank you, brother!

ruck_us said[quote][cite]HellskitchenManNYC said[/cite]You might not know this about me but...umm...I live in NYC....ya know the place where almost 4000 people lost their lives on 9/11. I want a pro to lead us.

Where is FDR when you need him? Fear drives people to do stupid things like give up their civil liberties and elect despots 'n' stuff.

"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--Widely attributed to Benjamin Franklin[/quote]

Thx for outdated platitudes.

ruck_us said[quote][cite]HellskitchenManNYC said[/cite]
I hope that hope is enuf for you and that it all turns out peachy keen!

Shore 'nuff will.

Other than ranting about Obama's lack of experience, what alternatives, exactly, are you offering?[/quote]

I wish I did have something ewlse to offer but it's all off the table now. I'm just ranting. trust me i'm not abad guy I'm just frustrated in a way I have never been before. I never gave two hoots about politics before. I'm just ranting...just excuse me if you don't agree.

cosmicjewboy said[quote][cite]ruck_us said[/cite]Experience aside, the McCain campaign systematically plays upon society's fears whereas the Obama campaign routinely challenges Americans to rise above them. I'd rather aspire to greatness than cower in the shadows of some vague (manufactured?) threat of impending doom. I think we end up getting what we dwell upon.

(And this comes from a Hillary supporter.)

Thank you, brother! [/quote]

Asking people and mesmerizing them in a speech does NOT mean you can do anything. Stop the Green tea mentality. OH wait WHAT AM I THINKING? There's a Thong thread I've yet to reply to! Heee....

you might not know this about me, but i lived a hop skip and a jump away and my nickname might give away another clue. that aside, ethics play a big part in who i choose and a candidate that makes up dookie and twists a straight line into nearly a 180 degree bend while still calling it a straight line isn't my cup of tea.

hillary has a lot of experience being a politician and that is one of the things that makes her the worst candidate. she can bend the truth with flair, already has a dictionary full of scandals within arms reach and her record regarding iraq makes me want to cry.

mind you, obama isn't my first choice either but i feel he's a better choice than clinton. (and mccain is isn't even in the ballpark)

i'm not a repugnican, i despise the party platform as it's pathetic for human rights, gay rights, american rights, rights, etc.

i'm downright disgusted with the demokitties for pussyfooting around like having balls would bring on the rapture.

i posted earlier about my very anti-politics stance but voting is a necessary evil.

i am further distressed that people mosey up to a given politician and hail them as golden and defend them blindly, naively.

i am aghast that people defend bush, his policies, his administration. if any other country was doing these things to their citizens, we'd be gaming for blood. if another country was doing things to america as we are to them, we'd be screaming bloody murder.

i think i need to start doing drugs so i can understand this ... stuff.

I LOVE you firefighter!

HellskitchenManNYC saidAsking people and mesmerizing them in a speech does NOT mean you can do anything.

enjoining a nation to rise above challenges and bettering ourselves as a nation, is generally considered a good thing. particularly when it's overcoming the scare tactics being used. nor do i think it is the definition of omnipotence.

FirefighterBlu3 said[quote][cite]HellskitchenManNYC said[/cite]Asking people and mesmerizing them in a speech does NOT mean you can do anything.

enjoining a nation to rise above challenges and bettering ourselves as a nation, is generally considered a good thing. particularly when it's overcoming the scare tactics being used. nor do i think it is the definition of omnipotence.[/quote]

Agreed.

HellskitchenManNYC saidI LOVE you firefighter!

i think i love you too, but let's go talk this over at dinner before heading to the jewelry store ;-) err, is that the adult jewelry store or Rogers?

Here's where I'm coming from guys (and then I'm going to bed). Obama may not be everything to everyone, no candidate is. But the issues he has stood up for: funding for Aids, voter registration, providing for the working poor, videotaping police interrogations, rebuilding trust in government, tax relief for working families, campaign finance laws, veteran's benefits, securing nuclear weapons around the globe, reauthorization of the voting rights act, keeping American jobs in America, improving health services for women, ending abuse of no-bid contracts, ending lobbyist's control of our government, and ending the war in Iraq, are all issues I hope we can all agree are damn important.

When asked what was one of the first things he is going to do as president he said he was going to task his Attorney General with the job of reviewing every piece of legislation George Bush passed into law, and abolish all of those that are unconstitutional. Sounds like a healthy idea to me.

It has been proven time and time again that presidents govern in the manner they have campaigned. Obama ran one of the tightest, smartest campaigns in the history of this country. Think of the odds he was able to overcome. He's a black junior senator with a name that sounds like Osama. A year and a half ago, hardly anyone knew who he was. This man was able to win the nomination over a woman whose name and reputation are the gold standard in the Democratic party. And he was able to do it and still have a huge surplus in the bank.

Come on, guys. Cut the dude some slack. And go to bed.

i wish fixing politics was as easy as fixing microsoft windows.

install linux.

cosmicjewboy saidCome on, guys. Cut the dude some slack. And go to bed.

i'm horny. i'm using politics to dampen my lustful urges. but then some guy with great abs gets the brilliant idea to post to the thread and i have to start all over

Firefighter Grrrr.......... Oh and Cosmic I'm sending you some Mexican Jumping Beans. They're fun to watch no.? If you listen real closely you can swear you hear them say "I am for CHANGE. I am for EVERYTHING. I have a PLAN for it." How do they do that in that little plastic box at the check=out lane? I dunno but I'm gonna vote for them. Ok now I'm just being nuts. lolol

i'm also good for random distractions now and then. speaking of nuts...

HellskitchenManNYC saidYou might not know this about me but...umm...I live in NYC....ya know the place where almost 4000 people lost their lives on 9/11. I want a pro to lead us.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Realisticly speaking, have you guys trouncing on Obama's case read from his site about his policies, the stands he takes on the issues? I'm not hearing any of you naysayers doing any comparing of where Obama and McCain are on the issues that affect us today. You say you want a pro !!!! Well my friend it will take a man with vision and a lot of Pro's who are Progressive to fix this terrible mess bush and his backers have the US in now (McCain stands squarely along side of bush when you do a comparison) Obama has a great line up of Progressives with decades of experience coming with each adviser. I'll put this all together along with Obama's impressive accomplishments in his short career, up against any bush following right wing neoconservative like McCain anytime. Make a comparison with facts of where Obama and McCain stand on the issues, not based on Fox news propaganda, and republican talking points. Many of us have named multiple times where Obama's stance on todays issues are progressive and will obviously turn our country away from bush policies which McCain repeatedly states that he is aligned with. I have read where McCain differs with bush is that he says he'll close Quantonimo, I would hope there would be more, but this is prescious little difference. If you want more of Bush, then vote for McCain, because he stands for the same as does Bush, is this the experience that you want repeated? McCain is more experienced, that is for sure !!! but as long as his experience is being directed at more of bush policies per McCains own words, then we definately need to change course. (again, don't take my word for it, read from his site, then compare his policy statements with bushs, you will see a near clone) If you want to vote for a progressive direction in a major turn away from the experience of bush failures, then there is no choice but to vote against McCain, and for Obama, because no-matter whether you think Obama is too green for the job or not, he is the candidate who represents a complete turn away from the failures of this administration. Which is one experience that I will be more than happy to put behind our country. Thanks to jewboy for bringing up this subject!!! There's few people who have accomplished more with the drawbacks that life gave Obama to start out with, any observer owes him at least credit for that. My vote will be for Obama, I see a lot less to fear from his lack of experience, than I do with continueing with the failed experience of Bush and the ignorance of McCain that intends to (by his own words) continue this failed bush legacy, thereby getting our country in a deeper mess than we currently are in.

Oh I'm not gonna say what I wanted to real. I'm glad you read his list of whatever but....

OK I'm done w/politics talk. I'm going back to being a regular person now. Gnite.

HellskitchenManNYC saidDO you raelly wnat a president in these days learning on the job? Cmon.

I much prefer a President willing to ask questions over a President who thinks (incorrectly) that he has all the answers.

rotabilis said[quote][cite]HellskitchenManNYC said[/cite]DO you raelly wnat a president in these days learning on the job? Cmon.

I much prefer a President willing to ask questions over a President who thinks (incorrectly) that he has all the answers.[/quote]

Sorry..y're thinking wrong. I WANT a pres. w/answers. real ones.

how about one with a poodle in a pink handbag and big cuban sunglasses? uses pens with a fluffy group of feathers on top?

we're not actually getting anything else accomplished in this thread

HellskitchenManNYC said AM I INSANE? Why would I vote for him?

I also was a Hillary supporter, but the answer to your question is (sadly) really simple.

THE SUPREME COURT.

And all the appellate courts.

HellskitchenManNYC saidAre you insane?! Do you know what's going on in the world now? D You really wnat someone w/like 3 yrs experience in the senate to decide what's going to happen?

Get off the mumbo-jumbo already! Hillary hasn't been in the Senate much longer than Obama. First Lady IS NOT an elected position to be scrutinized by the voting public. If Hillary can endorse Obama, why can't Hillary supporters? It sounds like BITTER spite to me...

I agree that accuracy is stronger than experience. Obama didn't start politics yesterday like you try to make it seem. Just because YOU haven't heard of him until recently doesn't mean he isn't qualified enough. If Bill Clinton had not been President, you would say the same things about Hillary.

What does experience have to do with anything anyway. Look at George Bush, he had enough experience to be President and look at what a fcuk-up he turned out to be. Obama may be new to politics but look at what thinking out of the box did for him, think of what it can do for us.

Each has experience and each has gaps. Administrations help fill those gaps via cabinet.

It is the candidates intentions that I will base my vote upon. I don't like McCain's intentions, starting with Iraq.

As a side, people who vote, or do not vote, based on spite are both childish and irresponsible. Sure it's their right, but it's also a voting citizen's right to drop limp in the supermarket kicking and screaming for Froot Loops, and you don't see that actually happen.

I get a kick out of these Republicans.

After the last 8 years this country is in the worst shape it has been in decades. We are raped each time we fill up our gas tanks, young men and women are dying in hyped-up war, people are losing their jobs, pensions and health care, by business who have gotten a free pass to do whatever they want from the Republican party.

If this sounds like something you want to continue, than vote for McCain! Oh, Republicans keep using the standard fear tactic of keeping people safe. Bullshit, we are not safe from them!

HellskitchenManNYC said
Objectivity comes from knowing the facts and then being able to make on OBJECTIVE decision. DON"t throw that shit around as a sidelines person w/no real thing to say. Bias...you obv. haven't read anything. And YES if someoone COULD convince me why Obama would be a good president, I'd like to hear it. and no nothing stated in this thread so far has done it. Get hip and don't be a sheep and repeat what yr friends tell you. BIAS? Don't belive all you read in Tiger Beat's newest Obama article w/5 fashion posters.

Please calm down, I wasn't attacking you. Telling me not to read "Tiger Beat's newest Obama article" was uncalled for. Telling me not to be a sheep and "repeat what my friends tell me" is an insult to my intelligence.

I pay attention to these political RealJock threads. I read newspapers (far more credible than CNN or FoxNews in my opinion) and magazine articles and keep an open mind and listen to both sides and am FAR more informed in regards to this presidential campaign than the typical person.

HellskitchenManNYC said
Thx for outdated platitudes.

How, exactly, are Franklin's words outdated? There are such things as timeless principles that apply throughout the ages. I think Franklin's quote is one of them. On the other hand, all I am hearing from you are non-sequitors and rants. If you wanna live in fear and panic and hysteria, go right ahead, but I'm going to support a candidate who offers a fresh, hopeful perspective.

Now, let's be clear. Obama was never my first choice and I do think he has his weak points. Hell, I'd vote independent if there were a viable third-party candidate, but so far, that's not the case. I do, however, believe that Obama has what it takes to inspire this nation to recapture its greatness. With McCain, we're looking at more border walls, more isolationism, more war/fear mongering, more attacks on the middle class, ad infinitum. With Obama, we have the potential to rise above the fear and mediocrity that has become all too familiar, of late.

Another thing that you seem to assume, Hells, is that the president is something akin to an emperor. We live in a representative democracy, and the president is simply the CEO of the executive branch. The president does not have carte blanche to do whatever he/she pleases, and every candidate's campaign promises are, to some degree, going to be challeneged either by Congress and/or the judicial. So, even if a president "has all of the answers," it doesn't mean he/she will be able to implement them. In a way, I look at the president as our national cheerleader-in-chief, and his/her role is to as much champion sound policies as to enact them.

jesus h, i can't believe all of you are still talking about obama. he's the nominee, let it go... this is coming from a huge hillary supporter -- check my previous posts, i was whole-heartedly behind her run for the nomination. however, what's done is done. so you have 2 options, pick one.

if you're seriously going to vote for mccain just because you don't like obama then i have nothing to say to you -- in my mind you're completely irrational. but for the love of god, can we all please move on?

ruck_us> an agent of hope

As Opra says: "hope is not a plan".

ruck_us> Other than ranting about Obama's lack of experience, what alternatives, exactly, are you offering?

I think that's why we're kvetching. Because there is no real/better alternative. We're screwed (foreign policy) if we do and we're screwed (domestically) if we don't.


Realifedad> have you guys trouncing on Obama's case read from his site about his policies, the stands he takes on the issues?

Yes, that's the problem. Mostly about foreign policy. Read on....


Lasalle04> I ask that you Google Obama and Jewish if you are interested several articles come up from the Jerusulam Post and particularly this one about how Obama "gets it":
[url]http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1203589810710[/url]

Um, did you read that article?

|| With all due deference to the Obama celebrity supporters like Steven Spielberg and George Soros, can Jews here in Israel and in America and other friends of Israel risk a vote for Obama in November? A quick look at the facts should switch on a big red light in most peoples' minds.

Obama needs to get rid of Zbig and others or else we're going to end up needing another John Wayne Reagan president in 4 years. A vote for Obama is a vote for Zbig is a vote for Carter is a vote for Reagan/Bush....


XruggerATX> Administrations help fill those gaps via cabinet.

Right, but Obama's choices/appointments are the cause for concern.


coolarmydude> If Hillary can endorse Obama, why can't Hillary supporters?

Her allegiance is to the Democratic Party and thus to its candidate. I have no such ties, just like voting for the best candidate.


jprichva> THE SUPREME COURT.

Yeah, I know. But why do I always end up plugging my nose when I vote?!


ruck_us> Obama was never my first choice and I do think he has his weak points. Hell, I'd vote independent if there were a viable third-party candidate

Hmmmm. Lieberman is now an independent.... Joe are you listening?!

DAMN I WAS BOMBED LAST NITE! LOL.

HellskitchenManNYC saidAs a big Jew boy myself....I wish my choices were not Obama or Mcain.

As a Jew I am proud to behind Obama. A minority in the White House with my support shows that America is moving beyond its past. Obama has never done anything anti-semtic. As American Jews we need to understand that while we are Jews, we are not Israelis, and that Israel is a country like any other on the planet. It is acceptable for people to criticize Israel.

The Black community screaming "racism", the Jewish community screaming "anti-Semite" and the gay community screaming "homophobic" has never accomplished anything except for everyone digging their trenches a little deeper.

DCEric> It is acceptable for people to criticize Israel

Of course it is - and no one does it as much as Israelis do.

Yet can you imagine if in 1940 a Presidential candidate would have said that in order for there to be peace in Europe, Britain (not nazi Germany) has to change its policies? After all, it's OK to criticize Britain, right....?

XruggerATX> Administrations help fill those gaps via cabinet.

caesarea4 said> Right, but Obama's choices/appointments are the cause for concern.

Who has he chosen so far? I've been a bit out of the loop the past few days.

This is non-sense if you don't like the choice you always have the option of not voting or voting for McCain and be done with it if you think he is the better or the lesser of two evils...GOD!

If the American people had wanted Hillary she would be the nominee but they did not and do not.

Being the first lady and co-sponoring a failed Unvivseral Health Care Bill does not give you a lot of experience with running the White House!

I just hope and pray if Obama is elected that some crack-pot does not try to kill as I am sure there has been a number of threats on his life and the life of his wife and kids.

Why don't you think about that before you started complaining about his lack of experience.

What is your definition of experience? I think he could have alll the experienece that you would list and it still would not be enough to satisfy some.

The same could be said for Hillary it was shameful how she was treated all becaus of what she just happen to be a woman and not a part of "THE GOOD OLD BOY NETWORK"!

Obama is an impressive sounding politician, although short on experience, he makes up with charisma and intelligence. The real secret to any successful leader is to pick good people to support him. Obama's first test will be the VP candidate.

The same can be said for McCain in terms of the importance of the VP choice. It will send a clear message regarding the Christian rights hold on the GOP.

I personally think the two nominees are probably the strongest the USA has had during the time I have been following politics (since the late 1960s).

If a candidate's experience really mattered in elections, than Al Gore would be President today. And frankly, had he won his home state of Tennessee, Florida wouldn't have mattered.

Americans don't care about experience. They only want to vote for the person they want to have a freaking beer with!

caesarea4 saidDCEric> It is acceptable for people to criticize Israel

Of course it is - and no one does it as much as Israelis do.

Yet can you imagine if in 1940 a Presidential candidate would have said that in order for there to be peace in Europe, Britain (not nazi Germany) has to change its policies? After all, it's OK to criticize Britain, right....?

Unbelievable that you could make that comparison. Unbelievable.

I think the whole debate about whether Obama has enough experience is so totally irrelevant. Let's look at the President who was elected with the least amount of experience, another man from Illinois–Abraham Lincoln. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraham_Lincoln
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/al16.html
Lincoln had even less experience as an elected official than Senator Obama.

What does experience mean anyway? Would we turn away a candidate who served for years in the private sector but had never held an office? The candidates should be judged by their actions and judgement rather than how many years they have been elected office.

I would personally prefer a relative newcomer to political office than a lifetime politician who has been in so long they're out of touch with what it means to be a citizen.

On a different tack, what in the WORLD does anyone see as 'valuable' about McCain's "experience"?

Not to harp, but his experience got us into Iraq in the first place, where McCain still maintains everything is going great, and that bringing troops home is 'not that important'. He's admitted he can't tell the difference between Sunni and Shia, joked about bombing Iran, and admitted that he doesn't know that much about the economy.

Ok, McCain has experience, but it's all in getting stuff wrong. I'm not seeing how that's a qualification for office.

On a more personal note, is it more likely that gay rights will be furthered by a McCain presidency, OR is it more likely they will be set back?

This whole conversation seems based on the idea that one man runs the entire US government. We've seen that was certainly not the case in the Bush administration. Seems to me that what matters most is Obama's ability to judge and choose people and project his message. He seems to have chosen a pretty good team to guide him to the nomination as evidenced by the results. And I'll leave you to debate his ability to deliver his message.

I agree Bradsmith. The U.S. government is supposed to be run by three branches, but in the last 8 years the Executive branch seems to have been ruling the other two. It also seems like the Bush Administration as a whole was behind quite a lot of the policy, so it is definitely important to see who each candidate surrounds himself with.

I like how ever talks about how he got to the IL state senate in the first place. Challenging the signatures of the sitting incumbant before your names even have a chance to hit the ballot and/or have an election and face the voters is bull. I don't care for what cealings the guy has broken in my book he is simply the following: Bush Gone Democrat and just as stupid. Both talk like and sound like american's next top preacher speaking of hope and dreams and change never telling you how they are going to get it doen and in the end it doesnt matter you're going to get screwed. Obama gave no specifics as to how the hell he would get anything done. Hillary did that and again people went back to wanting the guy that they felt most comfortable having a beer with. I, a once active member of the Young Democrats of America, Texas Young Democrats, etc.. will not