FORUMS > Sexual Health Forum Rules

Ok, so I've been looking at some gay porn, and they show the guys using a condom for fucking, but no condom for sucking a guy off. What gives? Can't you get HIV from sucking off, as well as fucking??

Mmm, i dont think you will not got HIV if you contact with someone who has it.

But, you always have to have sex with someone YOU KNOW AND TRUSR HIM and that you are sure he is HIV- otherwise, you dont know what happens.

Condoms can reduce that chances to got HIV, but it is not 100% sure that protect you.

...yup...lower risk activity, but still a risk...

...um...what was the reference for porn about? There is porn showing guys fuck without a condom...and most of us know that is high risk...

were you surprised? I don't think I have ever seen a porn movie where someone got a blow job with a condom...

- David

The foreskin of a uncut penis has microvessels that can burst during sexual activity, of coarse people won't normally feel or see/taste anything, but this is a serious risk, and there have been cases of these microvessels bursting due to increased blood flow and pressure to the penis. Having a cut penis also helps prevent some diseases....

But then again, having a uncut foreskin does perform a few important roles. It helps keep the glans protected and moist with emollient oils, and produces lubrication during sex or masturbation. The foreskin provides a gliding mechanism during intercourse, and also prevents possible friction and chaffing.

So it's a compromise....


Here are a site with some info:

Your foreskin:
http://www.health24.com/Man/Cm_x_Cm/748-3216-3220-3230,34803.asp

Yes you can get HIV from giving blowjobs without a condom, and I am living proof.

dfrourkeI don't think I have ever seen a porn movie where someone got a blow job with a condom...

I've seen one with the guy wearing a condom, but it was straight porn and the condom was banana-flavored.

Jbededward,

Since your admission I have becoming a little bit scare on performing oral on my sexual partner. However I start developing a new fetish of rimming(you cant get the dick , you go for the ass) and other weird behaviour like armpit and ball licking. It really hard to resist (especially during heavy forplay and heat of thing) the urge to taste that hard on. However, I really still do condomless blowjob when somebody else is doing it to me. The last time this guys leave me naked on the bed, because he expect me to return the favour he do to me.

oh, rimming...now there's a safe behavior. ...NOT!!! ...

thank you jbedwards for your admission, sadly many people are unaware of the risks of HIV associated with giving/receiving oral sex.

rimming is another way HIV can be transmitted, not to mention a host of other nasty things. I don't know what safe sex measures there are for that, maybe something along the lines of seran wrap and dental dams?

Stay safe!

I had a lover once, many years ago, whom I enjoyed a quart or two of his semen while sucking him off. (about a tablespoon amount at a time) I always insisted that he wear a condom if he wanted to stick it in the other side.
We drifted apart and a year and a half later, I found out that he had died from AIDS. When we were together his viral load must have been off the chart. Even though I swallowed, I did not get it, I test HIV Negative and I get tested often, at least every six months, usually every three, (I'm quite active) to make sure. So I'm not saying that you can't get "it"
from giving a blow job but I do that fairly regularly and I test negative.

While I am glad you are still negative, your practice is extremely unsafe. That is your choice. Yes oral is less chance for HIV but nonetheless the chance exists.

I don't think you set a good message by spreading your message of unsafe sex.

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/default.htm

Now I dont know what to do anymore. It seem that everything I do is unsafe. Probably I should put a condom all over my body before having sex. This is really frustrating. It take all my will power to stop myself from temptation of giving bj. Even an open mouth deep kissing carry certain risk
(I just dont think I can stop myself from doing that). I just cant wait to find one good men, and do it with him alone. Even then it probably not that safe too, if he straying around.

zakariah your frustration is understandable. however, kissing versus blowjobs are really a huge difference between risk factors. I don't think a case has ever been reported about someone getting HIV from kissing. both partners would have to be bleeding from their gums and the blood would have to come into contact.

oral sex on the other hand there is a much higher chance of contracting the disease. my suggestion would be to use a flavored condom? better to enjoy the sex a little less than to suffer for the rest of your life. also, if you are monogamous and truly trust your partner consider both getting tested and re-tested after 3 months and maybe than the 2 of you will feel comfortable not using condoms.

If you insist on giving blowjobs without protection, there are steps you can take to reduce the risk.

1. Do not brush your teeth just before having sex, you could open small cuts in your gums that pre-cum could enter.

2. Check your mouth and throat area by gargling with a strong salt and water solution. If your mouth area or throat stings you could have a cut you did not know about.

3. Don't assume that if a person does not ejaculate in your mouth you are safe. Pre-cum is just as bad as cum for containing HIV.

4. Maintain good oral hygiene at all times. Bad gums can be an avenue for pre-cum or cum to get into the bloodstream.

Probably the best rule about sex outside of a relationship is to assume THAT EVERY SEXUAL PARTNER IS HIV+ and act accordingly. That is the way I always approached casual sex, unfortunately I did not follow steps 1 & 2 above and in the early 90's oral sex was considered very low risk.

Have fun and be safe.

A website called "The Body" is an excellent source for everything regarding HIV and safer sex.

Hippie,

Now how to got the guys I gonna do oral on to put a condom. I mean most guys , including myself required somebody to suck them first for them to get hard and then we put the condom on. Ever since Edward admission I have not do any more bj, on other people, even though a few guys have perform one on me. (condomless)

Just like Edward mention I considered every one I be with as poz (including myself). This is really frustrating. But I guess it part of parcel of living in the world of AIDS. However I might do oral sex again with some guys that I know and trusted. I sure will follow Edward suggestions before doing it.

BTW, why are you saying rimming as unsafe (as far as HIV is concern). There no cum or pre-cum involve. Ass do not produce liquid like vagina isnt it. I cant see the logic. Of course you can get other disease with bacteria like E Coli etc but that is another story.

zak

Hi Zak,

I am glad to see you are being more safe with your practices. Just to let you know whether giving/receiving oral sex both partners can get HIV. It is less likely if you are the one getting head but still possible if the person has a tiny cut in their mouth which than goes on to mix with your opening.

As far as rimming there is no cum you are correct, but semen is not the only issue with HIV transmission. The anus is full of blood vessels and ruptures easily, naturally at any given time most people have some cuts openings in their rectum, and so again the possibility of an open wound on your tongue or mouth and that open wound in the ass creates the potential danger of HIV. There are also a host of other diseases that rimming is dangerous for, so I suggest learning about safe sex practices for rimming if you choose to engage in it.

In answer to the first part of your question. How do you get a guy to put a condom on? Well, demand it, it is your health and theirs. This is life we are talking about!

Why not engage in some foreplay to get your partner hard, or jack him off or something so than you can place on a condom, try a flavored condom so the experience is better for you.

If your sexual partner insists on not using a condom and you want to, just say no condom no sex! There is only one guy I ever allowed to give me a blowjob without a condom when I was HIV+ and that was another HIV+ man (this was before I met my partner). He insisted on no condom and was willing to take the risk.

jbedwards isn't it true though that even if both partners are HIV + that protection should be used? Because your strain may be less than the other person and it gives you a chance to pick up a stronger version of HIV?

This is a very good discussion and gives me more confidence to insist on safe sex from a partner. There are many people out there who don't really now how. I have had some really good sex with people that have known how to have sex as safely as possible.

Sometimes just being close to each other with some lube inbetween, or lube between the legs, etc. You can have really good sex without oral or anal penetration!

Frankgary,

I have been doing that method (the lube between the leg) in replacement for anal sex, since I was a teenager.( Anal sex is just to painful and offer me no pleasure at all). Frankly, it feel as good, as the real thing, a lot safer, a lot cleaner. Most the time I will bottoming and taking it barebacking. I have become real good at moving my pelvis muscle and squeezing that guys just climax (just ask my ex bf) . It get so most better if the top have a long, enormous size that you can really feel it sliding. However it still not 100% safe though. Once I discover I have a cut betwwen my leg after going jogging. Some guy can be really rough and might bruise you. However the skin between your leg are much thicker than in the ass, that the risk is really minimal.

Yes Hippie4lyfe that is true. If I was in a relationship with an HIV+ person I would be just about as cautious as if the person is HIV-. If you are HIV+ you do not want to be infected with a version of the virus that is resistant to meds. Also there are different forms of HIV, they are not all the same, you do not want to get a more virulent version of the virus.

The person I had sex with was willing to take the chance and I said "are you sure", he insisted yes, and I was careful not to climax in his mouth. If the tables had been reversed (ie I was blowing him) I would have requested a condom.

You can do a lot with your hands to stimulate and sexually gratify your partner. Friction between bodies is another way, and kissing the outside of the body rather than going inside is safer. There are many ways of sexual gratification besides the usual fucking, sucking and rimming. Better than risking your life or the life of your partner. Best to know that both of you are disease free.

Zac had a question on rimming as an "unsafe" sex practice, and I wanted to hit on that for a second. HIV exposure can occur during rimming, but more prevalent is the exposure to hepatitis or parasitic infections.

A couple of years ago I rimmed this guy, and within a week I knew something was really wrong. Without details, I found out that I had been exposed to a parasite -- but that my body had fought it off successfully. I still took drugs to make sure they were gone, but that was the least of my troubles.

In the end (pardon the pun), it took about two years for my system to get back to normal after that exposure. Probiotics helped immemsely, thank god. But rimming that really great butt was just not worth the two year discomfort of a messed up GI tract.

So when I'm with a guy and he requires me to rim him before anal sex, then I resign myself to no anal sex and have a great time with just JO or by myself. Sex is okay, but my health is worth a lot more to me!

I personally am not into rimming, but I know there a lot of gay men that want to try it or do engage in it. It is very low risk for HIV, but it is quite dangerous for other infections. Safer sex advisors recommend using a dental dam or a condom split length-wise and spread over the anus. It may deaden the pleasure a bit for the receiver, but as bigguysf indicated you can get very sick from parasites. I had hepatitis in 1995 due to HIV and that was horrible. I was very sick for 7 weeks and my weight dropped from around 160 to 137.

Wow, another no. No condomless bj, no nonrubber anal, now no rimming. When can I really enjoy myself. It seem like the only safe thing to do is get wire to Xtude and jack off.

Really this this is really frustrating. Sometime I wish I was a young men in the 70's after the Stonewall and before AIDS. Ever see the website "Gay sex in the 70's". Sexual freedom with no barrier.

OK guys , I abstain myself from rimming. But please not another no.

You can rim just use protection. The 70's wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Nobody talks about the STDs or the illnesses such as parasites or hepatitis. They were very prevalent in large cities where gay men were having a lot of casual sex. You should read "And the Band Played On" by Randy Shilts or "Faggots" by Larry Kramer to get another perspective on the so-called golden age of promiscuity for gay men.

One theory about why so many gay people died quickly from AIDS in the 80's was how battered their immune systems were from fighting other infections as well as drug use. When HIV came along their bodies couldn't handle it.

As a member of the Michigan Aids Task Force since its conception and a major person in health care for more than 35 years I should give some basic advise. First most sex is risky even for other STDs we dont want. Yes you can contract HIV from giving oral sex but the risks are much less than other activities. I am not an angel but know that every time I engage in sex it is a risk I take upon myself. I have come to terms with that. I am a very health guy and have to say that I am very lucky if not blessed. Remember this and sex. Your risks run with what you do and who you play with. If you restrict sex to a few and not to everybody that looks good to you. That is a good start. Understand that its not were you go because there are a lot of factors in you having sex with an unknown partner. You are just as likely if not more likely to pick up an STD from a guy at a bar than a health club or bath house. Look at the other activities involved before sex. Guys that smoke tobacco, drink alot of alcohol or use drugs are more likely to Have problems with STDs. Also STDs run in pairs they say. So if you contract an STD even herpes the chances you picked up something else s very good. Guys you shoud be very dilligant in protecting yourself at all costs. That means never do anything you are not comfortable doing. More important is if you are not comfortable during a sex act, stop excuse yourself and clean yourself off, gargle or what ever it takes to cleanse. Safe sex can be just as enjoyable as the other stuff. Think about what your doing and who your doing things with. Its your life you only have one so protect it that way.

To all you germaphobes on here who are afraid to suck and be sucked, know there are only two outs for you, manogomy or abstenance, until you are ready to do one, stop your whining, please. And, no i'm not trying to take the high ground above you because I get scared too. Infact, i'm getting ready for a date right now, I predict will "suck" and you guys are really ruining my groove. But, i'm not worried because, apart from all the safe guards I take: ask questions, gargle, take care of my gums; I know so many people who do oral only and they are still neg, I read a lot of articles that suggest low risk, and I have sucked like a bottomless void for years and I am still negative. The peranoia is not necessary, people, unless you are prepared to stay home and not have any fun at all.

GG,

We are here to discuss and share ideas. Of course it not my intention of spoiling your mood. I mean do you think I like to give a bj with a condom on. Just yesterday I have sex with one of my favorite "friend with benefit". After so many time sucking him condomless he thaught its strange that I insist on a condom. Guess what, he complaint he cant feel it and leave me feeling really frustrated.

But just like Edward say, he suspected he get infected through pre cum during blow job. We have to be careful. Common, I have give a bj since I m 14 years old and never use condom, but now I have too. It really something I have to get use to. I intent to stay negative (unless I am already positive without my knowledge) for the rest of my life.

zak

The risk is very very low. Unless the other person had an low immune system.

dreamdrop saidThe risk is very very low. Unless the other person had an low immune system.

Low, very very low is underestimating the risks. Read the website "The Body" and you will come across people who insist they got HIV from unprotected oral sex like myself.

All it takes is cum or pre-cum to get into the bloodstream through a cut, a low immune system should not have an impact.

Even though HIV transmission through oral is lower than anal/vaginal sex it is still possible and therefore remains a risk.

I wonder what the risk factor is for someone giving/receiving oral is, I believe the receiving partner is probably at less risk but still at risk.

hippie4lyfe saidEven though HIV transmission through oral is lower than anal/vaginal sex it is still possible and therefore remains a risk.

I wonder what the risk factor is for someone giving/receiving oral is, I believe the receiving partner is probably at less risk but still at risk.

The receiving person is at vitually no risk as long as the HIV+ person giving the blowjob is not bleeding in his mouth.

If I suspect I am bleeding at all in my mouth (e.g. I bit my tongue or cheek) I will not engage in french-kissing or oral sex with my partner, period. I am fortunately blessed with excellent teeth and gums so that is not an issue (I don't brush right before sex anyways).

It brings a whole new meaning to "open your mouth" if you have to check your partners gums for blood before you engage in oral. geez.

see "Male Latex Condoms and Sexually Transmitted Diseases"

http://www.cdc.gov/condomeffectiveness/latex.htm

dreamdrop saidThe risk is very very low. Unless the other person had an low immune system.

Rubbish ( sorry )

HIV can be caught by a healthy individual by oral sex. If the guy you are sucking is HIV and has a low immune system that has nothing to do with the chances of catching HIV, it is the volume ( viral load of HIV ) of an infected person you need to worry about.

If the guy you are sucking has an STD then HIV becomes easier to catch. If you get the STD then HIV can piggy back the infection and you can become HIV infected that way.

I wish guys would educate instead of speculate

I was THIS thread that make me change my oral sex habit from condomless to with condom. I have been with a couple of guys after this , I insist all oF them to put condom on when I am performing oral on them. Lately I even put on a condom before anyone start performing oral sex on me. The longer I do it the better it got. Most guy dont even compliant about it. One guys even ejaculate while I am sucking him with a condom on. Personally I kinda enjoy to have a bj with a condom on. My sensitive private part are well protected from some sharp teeth.

I am glad someone asked a question like this. It has been something I have always wondered about but never really got an answer to. I am absolutely terrified of giving anyone oral sex and after reading these posts it only re-enforced my decision to stay abstinent. You ppl scared the hell out of me (Parasites-2 yrs; HIV from BJ). Don't get me wrong i wasn't naive to these things but hearing them from real people makes it a difference. High school sex ed was the best thing ever until now.

Putting fear aside, I must say I learnt alot and I think I am much better able to protect myself when I find the one. Physical health and engaging in safe sexual practices is much more important to me that physical pleasure.

Latex condoms during oral sex. Who knew?

Lazz saidI am glad someone asked a question like this. It has been something I have always wondered about but never really got an answer to. I am absolutely terrified of giving anyone oral sex and after reading these posts it only re-enforced my decision to stay abstinent. You ppl scared the hell out of me (Parasites-2 yrs; HIV from BJ). Don't get me wrong i wasn't naive to these things but hearing them from real people makes it a difference. High school sex ed was the best thing ever until now.

Putting fear aside, I must say I learnt alot and I think I am much better able to protect myself when I find the one. Physical health and engaging in safe sexual practices is much more important to me that physical pleasure.

Latex condoms during oral sex. Who knew?

I'm curious. Men, by nature, NEED sex......just like eating and sleeping. It is unatural and unhealthy emotionally to not have sex. So my question is.......what do you do to compensate for the lack of sex? How do you handle it?

I don't think sex is a need like water and sleeping. It might be a strong desire but it is not a need. If we don't sleep, eat, drink we will die.

Now some people may claim they will die without sex but obviously sex is not a necessary tool for individual survival.

http://www.queersunited.blogspot.com

Actually, the risk difference between the (2) activities is like night & day. Here's a great audio clip:
http://g0ys.org/media/analPerils.ra

However, if you want to talk serious risk reduction (like a +Million to 1 against getting anything), -Simply don't do anal & don't do guys who do anal.

I'm one of the key MODerators of a growing men's movement called "g0ys" -spelled w. a zer0. You can G00GLE g0ys (be sure to spell g0ys w. a zer0) to find out more -- but essentially, we're guys who steer clear of the butt-nasty & other acts we feel degrade masculinity. I've never had an STD & I've never used a condom (never)! Whole different perspective on M2M & ironically -- a very ancient one.

- best wishes

I wish you were right about oral sex being 1 in a million versus anal. Unprotected oral sex, especially if you are cavalier with taking precautions, is probably a much greater risk if you are sexually active with a fair number of men.

Protected anal sex with only a few sexual partners is fairly safe.

As for anal sex somehow demeaning masculinity, I just don't get the correlation. Sex is about giving and receiving pleasure not about masculinity and femininity. And this is from a guy that does not enjoy anal sex.

I have listened to this discussion about the degree of "safe" sex on the radio, read about it in magazines and followed it in blogs and forums. I have thought about it a lot and I pose the following consideration:

I think we need to be careful not to disinfect the act of sex, no matter whether it is oral, anal or otherwise, to such a degree that it loses all meaning in our lives. I have never had anonymous sex and never will. Sex is important in a relationship and for me, it is a sign of trust in my partner. We are "at risk" all day of every day. That does not mean that the physical sharing that comes with sex should be sanitized to the point where the act becomes more sterile than intimate. As with everything in life, we need to make choices. These choices are based on risk assessments. If I have grown to know someone to the degree that I feel the intimacy is worth the risk, then I am going to do what I feel comfortable doing, condom or not, and live with it.

Personally, if I were to commit to never experiencing oral and anal sex again without a medical menagerie of equipment, tests, and precautions, I would feel I was giving something important and fundamental up. I think as gay men we need to weigh precaution carefully against the possible loss of true intimacy.

I am not HIV positive, and I am sure that a positive diagnosis can be extremely devastating; however, my fear of contracting the disease is not going to force me to forego sexual intimacy given the right circumstances.

Having worked in the dental industry for several years -- plus having returned from my doctor's office about 10 minutes ago, and having discussed this with him -- here's the scoop on oral sex & HIV:

GIVING: It's higher risk if you have open sores in your mouth (ulcers, recent dental surgery or brushing/flossing to agressively) that you MIGHT contract HIV. However, you do run the risk of contracting OTHER orally transmitted STIs (herpes, clamidiya or gonorrhea).

RECEIVING: The risk is very, very low of contracting. Essentially, you'd have to have an open wound on your penis, and somehow your partner would have to somehow get copious amounts of blood into these openings (so unless they're the blood-vomiting zombies from "28 Days Later"/""28 Weeks Later", it's not likely to happen). However, you do run the risk of orally transmitted STIs (like herpes).

The other factor to consider is someone's VIRAL LOAD: If someone is taking their meds accordingly, and is undetectable (by testing standards), then the risk is cut even further. It's not IMPOSSIBLE to infect someone, but it's much less likely to happen.

Oh, and I was told by someone at the AIDS Committee of Toronto (ACT) that it is safer to swallow than to swish cum around in your mouth -- that way, there is a much reduced chance of (potentially) infected cum to enter any open sores in the mouth.

The truth is, you NEVER know someone's HIV status for sure unless they tell you they're actually positive. Otherwise, you're just hoping that they're not (even in the most trusting of relationships, you still hope that your trust is never going to be broken). If you aren't comfortable with the negligible risks of unprotected oral sex, your options are (a) use a condom or (b) don't do it with anyone until you have a level of trust that you can handle.