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Feb 17, 2008 1:50 AM GMT
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I watched the movie and I thought it was really bad (not bad as in naughty, bad as in sucked). It seems like the awards and nominations were apologetic for the fact that if was about homosexuals. It was very predictable with the guy dying in the end. Of course he had to dye! I would not call myself a film critic in any way whatsoever. This is just my opinion. Bottom line is that I was not impressed with much of it. The question is simple… Is there another gay out there who does not like the movie Brokeback Mountain I guess I am a bad gay. |
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Feb 17, 2008 1:56 AM GMT
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Nah, you're not bad. But I did like the movie. For one thing, I thought it was great storytelling -- simple yet powerful. The script and the performances were terrific.
I also thought it spoke volumes about unrequited love and how the pressures of society turn so many of us into sheep -- and the cinematic references to that in the movie were no accident!
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Feb 17, 2008 5:33 AM GMT
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your kinda mean, the part when heath(r.i.p) finds out that jake died made me cry and im not soft either.
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Feb 17, 2008 6:27 AM GMT
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You're not bad...The movie was ok for me...I read the short story months before the movie came out so it lessened some of the emotional impact...was a notable movie nonetheless...my favourite scene was when Ennis held Jack's old shirt..such a tender and poignant moment...on another note, i read somewhere that they were going to turn The Frontrunner into a movie but i guess it never materialized...It was the very first gay novel I've read...made me believe that love exist between two gay men..
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Feb 17, 2008 6:37 AM GMT
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i didn't like the movie either... i fell asleep half-way through it... though it's sad to think that closetedness is still rampant among gay guys in this day and age  |
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Feb 17, 2008 7:15 AM GMT
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I didn't watch the movie .. but after I saw the clips and trailers I think I'll watch it ... It seems like a good movie .. Maybe you don't like romantic movies ..or movies that are far away from the real world (overdose of fantasies can be sick too) ...  but isn't it the aim of the movie , to take you to somwhere you can't reach in the real world?? What concern me is that we're in 2008 and we still deal with the issue of two men in love and how the society would accept it.. I hope the time to get into a deeper level isn't far ... (I mean ..in the straight love movies they don't focus just on the fact that the two are in love.. there are lot's of thing around and within) |
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Feb 17, 2008 9:03 AM GMT
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I've never seen it myself. Since I can't very well watch it on the living room DVD player. LOL I'll wait until I'm independent.
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Feb 17, 2008 2:17 PM GMT
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I personally liked it, but whether y'all did or not, I feel it helped the gay community and broke down some stereotypes.
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Feb 17, 2008 2:23 PM GMT
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I loved it - moreso because I could relate to the story.
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Feb 17, 2008 3:02 PM GMT
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You dont like it because you are 20 years old and live in gay friendly United States (I assume because you dont mention the town you are from). If you are like me in my forties, living in a country where homosexuality is a crime punishable by law, gay men is call a sinner and homosexuality is consider a sickness of the morally corrupt Western country, where religious preacher conderm homosexuality as worst than animal.
Where every men are expected to marry a women,where love between two men can only be carry out in secrecy, you will appreciated movie like Brokeback Mountains.
Brokeback represent people like me. Force into the closet , unable to live the life as I wishes to. I can indentify with Jack and Ennis. I can never married the man I love, I cannot have a family and I have to behave straight at work. And just like Ennis I probably will be alone at the end of my life.
Turn the clock back 80 years ago, imagine your self living in small city in the Midwest or Victorian England probably you have more understanding of the life I am living right now. Brokeback represent people like me, innocent victim who have to endure all the unfairness just because I was born the way I am.
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Feb 17, 2008 3:09 PM GMT
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I really liked it, the acting was very good, the plot was believable (but depressing). It gives a pretty good backwards glance to today's gays about what it was like for our gay predecessors. Gays have progressed tremendously in the last 40 years in Western societies. Unfortunately that is not the case in many parts of the world.  |
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Feb 17, 2008 3:11 PM GMT
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Never saw the movie so I can't comment on whether it is good nor not. I rarely go to movies because of the cost factor involved with popcorn and a soda. Not to mention the price of the ticket.
BTW, you're not a 'bad gay' for not liking the movie.
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Feb 17, 2008 3:14 PM GMT
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What color was he dyed? Is that part in the director's cut? ;-)
Anyway, it was like a kick in the stomach and I usually don't go for those films. I also thought the movie was a bit overrated. Not the best dialog and quite manipulative. Still, in the grand scheme of movie things I basically liked it for the unique circumstances of their romantic relationship, and the setting. Plus it had significance for our community's progress with the straight world.
Good enough for me. Just. But I'm not a very sophisticated moviegoer.
No, you're probably not a bad gay. You're just one who, I hope, doesn't compromise your critical taste in film for a novelty and/or social statement. Just as long as there isn't some internalized homophobia going on here as well.
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Feb 17, 2008 3:18 PM GMT
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Bad gay, bad gay, slap   Ok, we have this scenario. There is this supposedly straight cowboy that is being hit upon by his roughneck cowboy buddy. One second he is fighting him off and the next second he is doing the roughneck up his arse. Hmmm! Do you think it would happen that fast in real life? They should have tried to develop that part so it would come off a little slower on the big screen. Otherwise, I thought the movie was really good. I especially liked the acting of all the actors even the minor ones. |
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Feb 17, 2008 3:36 PM GMT
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You're not a bad gay, you just have no taste in movies  |
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Feb 17, 2008 3:48 PM GMT
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Did you like Crash, the movie that actually won the Academy Award for best picture that year? If so, maybe that's more your genre. Maybe tell us what gay themed movie you've seen that you do like.
I liked Brokeback and Crash. The scene in Crash where Matt Dillon was rescuing the woman from the burning car was awesome and intense. But it didn't move me like the scene in Brokeback when Jack and Ennis meet up again for the first time after those few years. As they ran to each other, you could just feel their connection and excitement coming at you through the screen. Totally heartwarming. When a director can do that, THAT'S a good movie.
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Feb 17, 2008 3:49 PM GMT
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I tend to agree with zakariahzol's assessment. Brokeback is, to me, metaphorical of a life half lived and the angst that goes along with it. It is one of the few "gay" movies that really "gets it" in terms of the inner turmoil many of us "old folks" endured back when being gay was tantamount to being a leper.
The part of the movie that touched me most deeply was the ending (spoiler alert), where Ennis finds Jack's denim jacket, which still carries Jack's sent, and in a flash, all of Ennis' fond memories rush back in like a freight train. That was definitely a poignant scene, and it seemed like anyone who wasn't already tearing up was bawling by the end. From a purely directorial and theatrical standpoint, I believe that the filmmakers definitely hit their mark.
That said, there were parts of the movie I thought were lame or unnecessary. Anne Hathaway's nude scene was irrelevant and gratuitous, and overall, I don't think she was well cast for this part. I did think Michelle William's character and acting were way overrated. Overall, though, I do believe that the film deserves all of the awards and accolades it received.
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Feb 17, 2008 4:01 PM GMT
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I must confess I thought it was an ok movie and all that but not one Id want to sit down and watch over and over again.
Breaking down stereotypes? It was like Village People and YMCA all over again! Aint nothing gayer than cowboys!!! OK they were real men not screaming queens but not really revolutionary in the breaking down stereotype camp. Forces and cowboys have buggered each other silly for centuries aint nothing new there.
It was nice to see a mainstream gay love movie but a tad hyped in my books
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Feb 17, 2008 4:01 PM GMT
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I thought it was good because I could really relate to the struggle of being in a relationship and following what society expected (instead of your heart). I went with my wife and I don't mind say, I cried. It really hit home. One of the turning points recently that inspired me to come out to her. Some very good scenes however I thought that it did start out very slow.
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Feb 17, 2008 4:07 PM GMT
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I didn't like it either. It was so freakin' depressing. And honestly, the whole time everyone was feeling sorry for the two men in the film and I was like, "what about the wives?" They are the one's that get royally fucked over. I feel like the movie somehow condones the way they treat them because the two guy are gay. I felt the whole movie had an air of selfishness to it, which made their actions seem dreadfully misguided. I wasn't rooting for them at all. I found myself rooting for the wives. They're the ones who got the short end of the stick. I think it's awful.
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Feb 17, 2008 4:09 PM GMT
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I guess gay romantic movies are not "my kind o' movies"
Zakarihzol - I did not like the movie because I was not impressed with the acting, dialog, etc. I thought it was very predictable. I don't think the US accepts homosexuality to this day. The movie was just stating the obvious for me. That being gay back then was a major 'no no' and today it is not much better.
Vtorso - I did enjoy Crash. I thought that had a good message about our society's obsession with race. I did not find a well portrayed message in BB Mt. like I did in Crash.
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Feb 17, 2008 4:10 PM GMT
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You are definitely not a bad gay for not liking the movie. I think movies resonate with each person differently as a result of the experiences of their own lives. I hated Pulp Fiction but everyone else I know loved it.... go figure..
I thought the movie was excellent but it did require you to go beyond what you were watching on the screen to the subtext of the movie. Though I was never closeted, I have known many people who have lived through this.
Zyryx, I too wish they would make the Front Runner into a movie.... great book.
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Feb 17, 2008 4:14 PM GMT
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I didn't hate it, but it's the usual gay film with a tragic ending. No tragedy=no crossover.
It also exploits stereotypes of masculinity and, in my view, was very simplistic in its treatment of the wives.
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Feb 17, 2008 4:20 PM GMT
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[quote][cite]creyente said[/cite] I hated Pulp Fiction but everyone else I know loved it.... go figure.. [quote] wahay the internet is great Im not alone I think Tarantino sucks! I have not seen him do one decent movie yet!!!!! There I have said it and I feel better already |
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Feb 17, 2008 4:40 PM GMT
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I didn't think it was bad, just WAY too long and kind of dull. The endless shots of scenery...that damn mountain...every time the director didn't know what else to do, he focused on yet another distance shot of Brokeback Mountain...yeah, it's craggy, and isolated, and another world altogether (like Shangri-La), WE GET IT. Can we move the story along, please?
No? Then do you mind if I go out for popcorn just now?
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Feb 17, 2008 4:42 PM GMT
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Somehow, i never thought i have to watch it. Though i do watch a lot of film releases/movies. Maybe i don't like to be programmed. 'cause, it's a stereotyped cliche - "unfortunate gays" (see other filmed gay stories). Could you name any happyending gay story? I mean not happy fastlove hookup  |
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Feb 17, 2008 4:46 PM GMT
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l liked it but it was a bit slow yawn yawn yawn!
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Feb 17, 2008 4:52 PM GMT
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Yeah, i'd support bfg1's suggestion - what the cinema industry and we need is to have mainstream gay lovestory of two atractive young gay guys (like gigman here, for instance)  Simple and beautiful! From the movie marketing viewpoint that would be more easily acceptable by moviegoers who are mostly fall in 18-25 btw, do not like the idea of straights playing gays - this is weird, and it could badly affect their career as well (Ryan Phillip etc) - 'cause their identity is usually marketed toward women. And, why? there's a lot of good gay actors |
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Feb 17, 2008 5:15 PM GMT
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yeah wasn't a fan.
and what took me out of the movie was alexander7's point. oh we met, oh you hit on me, oh now i'm going to fuck you.
blah.
it was beautifully shot, showing off some beautiful scenery.
it was nice that it was about homersexuals.
i found it sad that it made us look bad. How many people ended up being hurt, their lives ruined because of the gays?
i felt that was a stronger point than two guys in love...
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Feb 17, 2008 5:16 PM GMT
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I have to agree with rhythm1438. I guess I see it this way, if someone watches this movie, do I want them equating the way these two gays lived their life to mine? Not so much... If the same set of circumstances came up between a man and a woman, would their actions be excused? And yes, I understand the time and setting of the movie have a great effect on the plot, but I still don't like the representation.
One of my best straight friends loves the movie though, does that make him a better gay than me? lol
Quick story, a few months after I came out to my parents, I came home and my mom said, "I've been trying to get a hold on this, I even rented Brokeback Mountain a few weeks ago." This would be the point where my head almost exploded. Definitely NOT helpful for her.
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Feb 17, 2008 5:21 PM GMT
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Well i did like Brokeback, it was kinda slow but it was decent, i started a thread about one of my favorite gay flicks, "All Over The Guy" which is a very good romantic comedy that i think has been missed by alot of us, you should check it out!
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Feb 17, 2008 5:23 PM GMT
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So what. I'm not into every gay movie I see. Brokeback was a first, being so big and with it gay, but there's no law that says that you have to like a movie because it's about gay people. If you're able to step away and give a personal opinion on something and put your sexuality and other factors aside, than more power to you.
I personally loved the film. It showed a lot, though not all, of about what gay relationships were like. I don't know about the awards, but it was a film a long time coming. Before Brokeback Mountain, there were only gays in indie films, sundance festivals and token t.v. characters. I felt like society took a major step foward. Sure, there was Will&Grace, and Queer Eye... but they were only another small step.
But I know one thing is for sure. If gays are ever going to be truly accepted in to the society that hates us, than maybe we need to have gays in more prominent t.v. and film roles. We need a gay hero[ine], a gay lead character who acts like any other guys because we are like any other guys, and the stereotypes need to be put aside once and for all...
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Feb 17, 2008 5:25 PM GMT
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I liked Trick.
Why? cause it's one of the few movies that someone gay didn't die in.
not totally fond of the plot, but it was cute and fun.
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Feb 17, 2008 5:31 PM GMT
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I think there's the only way to conquer straight people.. it's to seduce them  i mean not literally  |
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Feb 17, 2008 5:32 PM GMT
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creyente saidYou are definitely not a bad gay for not liking the movie. I think movies resonate with each person differently as a result of the experiences of their own lives. I hated Pulp Fiction but everyone else I know loved it.... go figure..
I thought the movie was excellent but it did require you to go beyond what you were watching on the screen to the subtext of the movie. Though I was never closeted, I have known many people who have lived through this.
Zyryx, I too wish they would make the Front Runner into a movie.... great book. I HATED Pulp Fiction, I walked out of it about 2/3rds of the way through. Too much gratuitous violence directed by a guy that has obviously watched too many violent movies over the years. "The Front Runner" would be a good movie to make into a film, but there have been some recent books I have read that would be even better. "The Geography Club" by Brent Hartinger and "Rainbow Boys" by Alex Sanchez are both very good coming out stories. "A Home At The End of The World" by Michael Cunningham and "Common Sons" by Ronald Donaghe would also be good as films. |
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Feb 17, 2008 5:36 PM GMT
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Although I think BBM was certainly notable for its adaptation from an incredible short story, mainstream acceptance and cinematography; I have other 'gay themed' films I liked more (INPO):
Big Eden
Friends and Family
Outing Riley
Jeffrey
Chutney Popcorn
All over the guy
Ice Men
The Bear Cub (In Spanish)
East Side Story
Coffee Date
...just to name a few.
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Feb 17, 2008 5:39 PM GMT
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I actually can't remember much about the movie, but I had read the story years earlier. I guess the movie didn't really add much.
In general, I'm not a huge Annie Proulx fan, but the minimalist narrative is kind of her style. She gives you some back story, and some brief action (usually one pointless tragedy after another happening to people who live in trailers), but leaves the reader to try to figure out what the characters are thinking and why they react the way they do. Her male characters are usually oafish buffoons who do things at random and for no rational reason. It's a little bit like reading science fiction, and seeing the world from the alien (female) perspective.
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Feb 17, 2008 5:43 PM GMT
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mindgarden said..usually one pointless tragedy after another happening to people who live in trailers), but leaves the reader to try to figure out what the characters are thinking and why they react the way they do. Her male characters are usually oafish buffoons who do things at random and for no rational reason. It's a little bit like reading science fiction, and seeing the world from the alien (female) perspective. that's just brilliant comment |
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Feb 17, 2008 5:51 PM GMT
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ITJock said
Jeffrey
love that film just about to stick it in the DVD in a few minutes, tos another candyfloss for the brain type film in a way tho but still good |
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Feb 17, 2008 6:01 PM GMT
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.[/quote]
I HATED Pulp Fiction, I walked out of it about 2/3rds of the way through. Too much gratuitous violence directed by a guy that has obviously watched too many violent movies over the years. "The Front Runner" would be a good movie to make into a film, but there have been some recent books I have read that would be even better. "The Geography Club" by Brent Hartinger and "Rainbow Boys" by Alex Sanchez are both very good coming out stories. "A Home At The End of The World" by Michael Cunningham and "Common Sons" by Ronald Donaghe would also be good as films.[/quote]
" A Home at The End of the Word" was already turned into a movie back in 2004 starring Colin Farrel. I havent seen it yet but i'll check it out. Also did anyone else read any of Anie Proulx other books? I remember reading " The Shipping News" back in Highschool, I really enjoyed it too.
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Feb 17, 2008 6:06 PM GMT
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I find it interesting that most (not all - so don't flame me) of the guys here who don't like the movie are young and don't relate to the oppression of the time. People could be exempted from jail on a murder charge because the guy that they killed was 'just a fag.' This was accepted as reasonable by most Americans, not a a few right wing fundamentalist nuts, MOST Americans.
While we hear stories of homophobia in the press, we are not only desensitized to it, it is presented nowadays as a travesty when in the past, the issue wasn't even mentioned.
The youth of today, really have no idea how much things have changed in 30 years and when told of it, tend to view it as a "I used to walk 12 miles through 2 feet of snow every morning to get to my school in 1st grade" type of statement. Those of us who used to live in fear of our safety and even our lives know differently.
As for the movie, I did find it sad. I found it beautiful and moving as well. As a movie, I like the fact that it didn't explain everything. As for the wives, that was common for the day and still happens now. There are men who marry still (and women too) because they're supposed to. Peer pressure causes lots of bad decisions like this. Technically, I found this movie excellent and for the style of movie that it is, I'd put it near the top of the list. I wouldn't lump it into the 'gay movie' genre.
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Feb 17, 2008 6:17 PM GMT
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I think reading Front Runner provided a major turning point in my life. I was already a distance runner, and a closeted gay. So there were two reasons for me to get totally engrossed in the story, and I was totally taken in by the twist in the story near the end.
i think that Brokeback Mountain had a similar effect to mainstream movies, and the manner in which gay men are portrayed, as Front Runner had on gay-themed literature. Yes, there have been other gay themed movies, as there were other gay themed books.
But both Brokeback and Front Runner had ground breaking content interweaved into a story well-told, with the content centering on the nature of gay relationships at the time. In both cases the characters were allowed to have sex as part of the relationship (not in a soft or hard porn sort of way).
That said...I thought the most sympathetic characters in BB Mountain were Heath's wife (and girl friend in real life) and Jake's mother. I had the same slight distaste for the duplicitous nature of what the two guys were doing, despite being drawn in by the romance of it, that I have for some of the gOy-sort of thing we've seen on other threads.
The other criticism I had of the movie was the initial sex scene, which was really the straight world's conception of what gay sex is and, as depicted, was a bit ridiculous.
Those are really minor criticisms...I think the movie was terrific, and so emotional for me that I have yet to be able to see it a second time.
John
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Feb 17, 2008 6:25 PM GMT
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What I don't get is how some of the earlier posts criticized Brokeback Mountain portrayed the "negative stereotype" of being gay, i.e. when everybody else gets hurt because of the "homersexuals" or when somebody dies in the end. There is nothing more un-stereotypical than two cowboys- the gleaming icon of masculinity in America (Marlboro Man or Ronald Reagan, anyone?)- falling in love with each other. I recognize the effect of this situation to their wives and families, but if it were between a straight couple it'll be the same run-of-the-mill story of heterosexual infidelity, e.g. A Perfect Murder, Fatal Attraction, Unfaithful. Heads turned? Barely. Lessons learned? Married couples are still divorcing. People are hurt not because of THE gays, but because of BEING gay in America.
I admit I didn't cry my eyes out when I saw it, but it doesn't mean the meaning and intention were lost. Someone was criticizing the scenery, which I thought was pivotal in the story. It has to be recognized that the setting is the story itself, signifying that in a place remote and disconnected two individuals can be free of societal limitations to explore their real mutual emotions. Too slow and dragged out? Maybe y'all have been desensitized by big, explosive blockbuster movies that leave you deaf and blind by the end of three hours. Maybe it is a sign of the need to be gratified instantaneously, no? Well, the producers of these movie genre think so. Too depressing? Maybe one could go back to the gay, coming of age flicks that trivialize the teenage experience- sexual and a little superficial, e.g. Eating Out 1 and 2, Another Gay Movie, etc.
This movie also came out in an opportune time in 2005, a year after same-sex issues were being pondered and debated in full-swing. I can see how this film became important to the non-youth demographic (24 and older), but even I saw it as an important film. I am 24 years old and I live in San Francisco, albeit not my whole life. Being young and gay in a big, gay city doesn't absolve me of all sympathy for those who are not in a big, gay city- the very sentiment Brokeback Mountain should have conveyed and unfortunately more than a handful of people do not get.
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Feb 17, 2008 6:28 PM GMT
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HATED IT - slowest stupidest movie I ever saw. I could not relate to this movie at all.. and don't understand why so many gay men cried over it.. it was ubearable to sit through till the end. I think mostly - the movie is about American Gay culture in the past - in Europe it was not such a big deal.. and I think most Europeans don't relate to it either..
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Feb 17, 2008 6:32 PM GMT
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kingaugustusxv saidThere is nothing more un-stereotypical than two cowboys- the gleaming icon of masculinity in America (Marlboro Man or Ronald Reagan, anyone?)- falling in love with each other. Oh pleaase! All boys together? late nights under the stars and no telly and all those leather chaps around and favourite dress em up outfits its a gay wet dream and as camp as it comes ha ha ha ha |
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Feb 17, 2008 6:36 PM GMT
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Mindgarden pretty much took the words out my mouth. I vaguely recall the story and only recall feeling very let down as the final credits were running. Maybe it was the hype that inflated my expectations, or perhaps it was the years of metropolitan partyboy living that had left me somewhat jaded, but I was stupefied to find myself a little angry at how "discreet" this love affair was. Everything seemed watered down to beyond insipidness at the time––the intimacy, the dialogue, that crude sex scene––to make it marketable to Middle America. Well, I found nothing risque about the picture as a whole, and maybe if my expectations hadn't been so enormous I would have just focused on the story and empathized with the lead characters, rather than bash them for being emotionally-crippled closet cases leading double lives and living in a state of perpetual limbo. Dunno... that's how I recall it.
I have the movie cued and I'll be watching it in a little while. Now that I know what NOT to expect, hopefully I'll get sucked in this time and sob like a lost little orphan. I'll let y'all how it went down.
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Feb 17, 2008 6:36 PM GMT
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vtorso saidDid you like Crash, the movie that actually won the Academy Award for best picture that year? If so, maybe that's more your genre. Maybe tell us what gay themed movie you've seen that you do like.
I liked Brokeback and Crash. The scene in Crash where Matt Dillon was rescuing the woman from the burning car was awesome and intense. But it didn't move me like the scene in Brokeback when Jack and Ennis meet up again for the first time after those few years. As they ran to each other, you could just feel their connection and excitement coming at you through the screen. Totally heartwarming. When a director can do that, THAT'S a good movie. ------------------- Hated Crash too - its a movie based on STEREOTYPES which are created by America and EXIST ONLY IN AMERICA - this is why I could not relate to it either... just like I could not relate to Brokeback mountain. Both these movies would never be made in Europe according to me.... there is a lot of stereotyping in America which does not exist in Europe.. Crash was not welcomed by most people I know in Europe.. they were rather shocked to see such a racist movie.. my friends called it "TRASH". Sorry but I feel that movies like Brokeback & Crash - keep coming out of Hollywood year after year JUST to keep the racism and homophobia ALIVE in America.. |
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Feb 17, 2008 6:43 PM GMT
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bfg1Oh pleaase! All boys together? late nights under the stars and no telly and all those leather chaps around and favourite dress em up outfits its a gay wet dream and as camp as it comes ha ha ha ha That's the point. Ang Lee chose not to portray it that way. James Cameron Mitchell or John Waters probably would have. Certainly, as you pointed out, there is a disconnect that the film and TV industries have failed to capitalize on, well, apart from "How the West Was Won" by Falcon.
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Feb 17, 2008 6:51 PM GMT
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dont get me wrong I was mucking around with the previous post, but Ang Lee did nothing more with Brokeback than they have done with straight hero based movies for yesrs ie give its adoring audience wet knickers.
Its good to see a mainstream Gay Movie but it wasnt all that and wasnt breaking any new ground or any stereotypes in my opinion or it would have been a film about two stockbrokers or painter and decorators or plumbers or electricians ........... and then who would have paid attention??????
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Feb 17, 2008 6:57 PM GMT
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rhythm1438 saidI didn't like it either. It was so freakin' depressing. And honestly, the whole time everyone was feeling sorry for the two men in the film and I was like, "what about the wives?" They are the one's that get royally fucked over. I feel like the movie somehow condones the way they treat them because the two guy are gay. I felt the whole movie had an air of selfishness to it, which made their actions seem dreadfully misguided. I wasn't rooting for them at all. I found myself rooting for the wives. They're the ones who got the short end of the stick. I think it's awful. You literally took the words right out of my mouth!!! I only cared about the wives! |
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Feb 17, 2008 6:58 PM GMT
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fastprof said
But both Brokeback and Front Runner had ground breaking content interweaved into a story well-told, with the content centering on the nature of gay relationships at the time. In both cases the characters were allowed to have sex as part of the relationship (not in a soft or hard porn sort of way).
And, what's the nature of gay relationships in our days? has it changed significantly since then? |
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Feb 17, 2008 7:01 PM GMT
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And now the movie is accomplishing what it set out to do: get people talking about the gender issue and the portrayal of homosexuals.
Sometimes being perceived as a bad movie or getting bad reviews is a way for people to notice what the movie is trying to say.
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Feb 17, 2008 7:04 PM GMT
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bfg1 said
Its good to see a mainstream Gay Movie but it wasnt all that and wasnt breaking any new ground or any stereotypes in my opinion or it would have been a film about two stockbrokers or painter and decorators or plumbers or electricians ........... and then who would have paid attention?????? I has to be a kind of Jumper or Transformers, you see? 'Cause films/movies about ordinary people in ordinary events rarely appear on bigscreen (it's not profitable), going right to DVD market. So, love story has to be a secondary plot line.. BBM has huge PR hype from studio/producers but it hasn't spectacular admissions numbers in cinemas. No one dreamed about it.) Though i guess they expected huge DVD sales among gays later. |
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Feb 17, 2008 7:17 PM GMT
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WildCuddler saidI personally liked it, but whether y'all did or not, I feel it helped the gay community and broke down some stereotypes. I agree with that guy.  Everybody has different taste in movies. Some of my straight guy friends actually enjoyed it and one even cried. Now that was an interesting thing for me to see. A straight guy crying over a gay movie. Then agian i cried when i first saw Titanic.  |
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Feb 17, 2008 7:17 PM GMT
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kingaugustusxv said There is nothing more un-stereotypical than two cowboys- the gleaming icon of masculinity in America (Marlboro Man or Ronald Reagan, anyone?)- falling in love with each other You gotta be kidding. If you're too young to recall the Village People, then lemme take you to a gay country-western bar. While Brokeback's usual subscription to the gay=dead aesthetic annoyed me, I don't think the narrative was bad, in the book or movie (they are about identical). While the author has not confirmed it, the parallels to Virgil's "Aeneid" are striking (to say nothing of Ennis' name). In this and its setting in nature, the movie has an almost mythological/timeless feeling to it. Its ambiguous ending adds to that. I think this quality of the narrative is one reason for its crossover appeal. |
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Feb 17, 2008 7:25 PM GMT
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obscenewish said
While the author has not confirmed it, the parallels to Virgil's "Aeneid" are striking (to say nothing of Ennis' name). In this and its setting in nature, the movie has an almost mythological/timeless feeling to it. Its ambiguous ending adds to that.
I think this quality of the narrative is one reason for its crossover appeal. Wow, here's a real incentive to give it an hour and check all the movie (for those who didn't =) bfg1, have you seen UK produced (couple of years ago) Stombreaker (it was indended to become next Harry Potter) with Stephen Fry, Robbie Coltrane, Sophie Okonedo, Ewan McGregor, Mickey Rourke etc? The leading cute boy caracter (Alex) said like: Darrius Sayle: It reminds me of myself. Alex Rider: It's 99 percent water, has no brains and no anus. [pause] Darrius Sayle: I think I'm going to like you. |
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Feb 17, 2008 7:34 PM GMT
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You should never feel bad about your taste and what you like. You can only question what your true motives are and why you do or do not like something. It may be significant or it may not be. Sometimes, the fact that people have to justify or explain what they like is more interesting than the object itself.
All that being said. I zero in on the point of the whole movie .. that is .. finding real love and coming to terms with yourself in the face of adversity. I was was convinced that the two were in love, but as is true to most gay men coming out and coming to terms with their feelings, there are complications when you feel and know that there are others who would not approve of your love or relationship. Even though the movie was tragic, I thought it was very meaningful.
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Feb 17, 2008 7:42 PM GMT
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Hmm, I've read the Aeneid (recently) and never quite got that.
I also read the short story before the movie came out, and like another poster I've never been a fan of Annie Proulx (how do you pronounce that, anyway?). When I read the story all I could say was, Jesus, this woman knows absolutely nothing about gay male sexuality. And I'd say the same for the straight man - straight woman team who wrote the movie. As for the big death scene, in the original story it seemed tacked on to me, like "Let's see, how can I end this sucker with a big tragic bang? Oh I know - tire iron!"
Mostly, the movie played to me like any other Hollywood sad ass love story, except it happened to be two guys.
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Feb 17, 2008 7:44 PM GMT
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Proulx = Prooh
You're welcome. ;)
Wait. You're survived the flames? How can this be?!
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Feb 17, 2008 7:46 PM GMT
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I STILL have not seen "Brokeback". I don't know why, I just haven't. I guess I also don't jump at anything with a gay theme anymore. I used to, but I don't now. I don't even turn to Logo, because there never seems to be anything of interest on. But please don't confuse that with not being happy with myself, because I am.
Being gay is not the MOST important part of me and is not the entire picture of who am.
I'm not putting anyone else down. This just pertains to me. I love every one for who they are!!
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Feb 17, 2008 7:47 PM GMT
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I thought it was stupid too. At any time they could have gone off and opened an antique shop together and lived bitchy ever after. Tons of others did. End of story.
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Feb 17, 2008 7:51 PM GMT
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Obscenewish saidYou gotta be kidding. If you're too young to recall the Village People, then lemme take you to a gay country-western bar. I'm fine, thanks. SF has more than a fair share and I've been to one too many of them. I have also performed YMCA and Macho Man on pitch, in tune one too many times. I was thinking the way we appropriate the idea of the gay cowboy is community-specific, certainly one that still mildly perplexes the non-LGBT community. Speaking of community-specific: Travelstud saidHated Crash too - its a movie based on STEREOTYPES which are created by America and EXIST ONLY IN AMERICA - this is why I could not relate to it either... just like I could not relate to Brokeback mountain. Both these movies would never be made in Europe according to me.... there is a lot of stereotyping in America which does not exist in Europe.. Crash was not welcomed by most people I know in Europe.. they were rather shocked to see such a racist movie.. my friends called it "TRASH". Sorry but I feel that movies like Brokeback & Crash - keep coming out of Hollywood year after year JUST to keep the racism and homophobia ALIVE in America.. I believe not all movies are meant to be universal. Some depend on a specific historical and cultural context, the same way La Cage Aux Folles or La Vita E Bella failed to resonate on some. I feel movies like Brokeback and Crash keep coming out of Hollywood year after year to REMIND people that racism and homophobia DO exist in AMERICA, because, honey, they are well and alive... |
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Feb 17, 2008 7:53 PM GMT
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bgcat57 saidI find it interesting that most (not all - so don't flame me) of the guys here who don't like the movie are young and don't relate to the oppression of the time. People could be exempted from jail on a murder charge because the guy that they killed was 'just a fag.' This was accepted as reasonable by most Americans, not a a few right wing fundamentalist nuts, MOST Americans.
While we hear stories of homophobia in the press, we are not only desensitized to it, it is presented nowadays as a travesty when in the past, the issue wasn't even mentioned.
The youth of today, really have no idea how much things have changed in 30 years and when told of it, tend to view it as a "I used to walk 12 miles through 2 feet of snow every morning to get to my school in 1st grade" type of statement. Those of us who used to live in fear of our safety and even our lives know differently.
Perfectly put. I am not all that old, but things have changed dynamically in just the past ten years. The Internet has empowered gays by creating a community for people in places like the Wyoming setting of this film. Therefore, young gay men have found themselves while not having a supportive community around them, and that kicked off the whole gay revolustion that even allowed a film like Brokeback. Also, MTV came out when I was in junior high school and so we older Gen Xers are last generation to remember having only three networks and investing more time in a movie and its characters. People who've grown up with MTV since then think Top Gun is a good movie because it keeps moving. Never mind that it has no plot, no character development and no realism whatsoever. Brokeback Mountain is in that tradition of classic films like The Deer Hunter, The Sweet Hereafter, Five Easy Pieces, Hud or The Last Picture Show (the latter two of which were based on Larry McMurtry's books, one of the screenwriters for Brokeback) in which characters and relationships are explored, and take their own sweet time to do so. I hate to sound like one of those generational snobs but I don't think younger people today have the patience to follow such pacing. I can't imagine them getting anything out of the films that I listed. Beyond all of that, this film did something no mainstream Hollywood film before it ever did: thoughtfully and intelligently presented the dilemma of being gay in a country that still hasn't come to terms with homosexuality. Hell, I know so many Ennises in my own community that it's sad. To this day there are still men marrying women and having children, some because they want a family and don't want to have it with a man and hence have to fight for it, and some just to meet societal standards. The only thing wrong with Brokeback Mountain was that everyone thought it something that happened in Wyoming in the 1960s, but it's happening everywhere still today. |
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Feb 17, 2008 7:53 PM GMT
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I saw the movie with a few friends..All were so enthused...I seemed to be the only one dissappointed..NOT with the acting, but the storyline...The implied sex---bend over baby-- just the way breeders see us...I was dissappointed that the film got so much hoopla and did nothing for stereotyping and condoning the extramarital affairs...
sorry sorry sorry....Ledger still rocks..But I was not a fan of the movie...
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Feb 17, 2008 8:00 PM GMT
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burninman saidI thought it was stupid too. At any time they could have gone off and opened an antique shop together and lived bitchy ever after. Tons of others did. End of story. ... or a bed and breakfast inn would have been cute, too. |
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Feb 17, 2008 8:18 PM GMT
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Travelstud saidHATED IT - slowest stupidest movie I ever saw. I could not relate to this movie at all.. and don't understand why so many gay men cried over it.. it was ubearable to sit through till the end. I think mostly - the movie is about American Gay culture in the past - in Europe it was not such a big deal.. and I think most Europeans don't relate to it either.. Hmmm, there was no homophobia in Europe in the 1960's? I kind of doubt it. Older european gay men might not have been able to relate to cowboys, but I am sure they could relate to the story of forbidden love, and violence against gays. There are still some countries in Europe that are anti-gay (e.g. Poland). As for inability to relate to a movie, I am not sure what that has to do with its' quality. I cannot relate to living in a concentration camp, but I thought "Sophie's Choice" was a great movie. I cannot relate to fighting in a war but "Platoon" was an exceptional war movie. It is all about the plot, the acting, the screenplay and finally the Director's talent. |
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Feb 17, 2008 8:20 PM GMT
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I loved Brokeback Mountain but I hated it too. I liked the story line but the ending was way too sad for me. It really depressed me. |
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Feb 17, 2008 8:22 PM GMT
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bgcat57
" A Home at The End of the Word" was already turned into a movie back in 2004 starring Colin Farrel. I havent seen it yet but i'll check it out. Also did anyone else read any of Anie Proulx other books? I remember reading " The Shipping News" back in Highschool, I really enjoyed it too.
You are correct "A Home at The End of the World" was a movie, but I haven't found it in the video store. I saw the movie of "The Shipping News", I liked it although it was kind of sad.
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Feb 17, 2008 8:37 PM GMT
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riptjock saidHmm, I've read the Aeneid (recently) and never quite got that. You must have read the one with the happy ending. This is not a novel observation. It's been made by many film journal types. Google. |
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Feb 17, 2008 8:42 PM GMT
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I highly recommend Annie Proulx's "Close Range:Wyoming Stories" Brokeback Mountain is just one of I think 11 short stories. I read her book about a year before the movie came out. Its great fiction.
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Feb 17, 2008 8:48 PM GMT
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For all the difficulty it has had finding a home, the Movie I still want to see produced it "The Dreyfus Affair". But after more than 10 years and dozens of preproduction reincarnations, I am not holding my breathe.
Now THAT would be an incredible movie.
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Feb 17, 2008 8:51 PM GMT
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I think it's a great film and an important one, too. It is a quiet and subtle film, the actors are all very, very good in it. I think Brokeback wasn't intended to be a mass audience film, not because of the gay theme to it but because it was a thoughtful, deliberately paced indie film. Brokeback was a character driven piece and not a plot driven piece. The big reveal at the end of the movie, where Ennis finds their shirts in Jack's closet, was really powerful and moving for me. I wish that image hadn't been in the trailer.
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Feb 17, 2008 10:27 PM GMT
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I just re-read the title of the topic ..
A Gay That Does Not Like Borkeback Mountain…WTF?
Maybe you saw the Swedish version? Maybe that is why you didn't like it ..
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Feb 17, 2008 10:48 PM GMT
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Travelstud saidHATED IT - slowest stupidest movie I ever saw. I could not relate to this movie at all.. and don't understand why so many gay men cried over it.. it was ubearable to sit through till the end. I think mostly - the movie is about American Gay culture in the past - in Europe it was not such a big deal.. and I think most Europeans don't relate to it either.. Ya, ok amigo |
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Feb 17, 2008 11:10 PM GMT
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What about the wife?... I read somewhere 2 million American women marry a men that have sex with another men. That's in gay tolerance America , what about some more consevative country like say Iran , those African country or my own. Who is to blame, the gay men himself. What choice that he have. He are not allow to marry a men. There a law prosecuting him for having sex with another men. He is told he be burn in hell when he die. He saw all around him, everybody else is getting marry and producing children and live a happy life. His family that he love pressuring him to get marry (and be happy).
I saw Brokeback marriage all around me. Gay guys that have to do this, because they are suppose to. I manage to resist this marriage with the same excuse of "not finding the right girl yet". But every one in my life family, friend, society expect me to get marriage or to at least explain why not.
I have every sympathy for those unlucky wife , but the guy are also the victim of this cruel, unfairness situation they are in.
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Feb 17, 2008 11:33 PM GMT
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Am I allowed to say I haven't seen it yet?
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Feb 17, 2008 11:36 PM GMT
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Didn't like the movie. I fell asleep.
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Feb 17, 2008 11:59 PM GMT
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michaelback said[quote][cite]Travelstud said[/cite]HATED IT - slowest stupidest movie I ever saw. I could not relate to this movie at all.. and don't understand why so many gay men cried over it.. it was ubearable to sit through till the end. I think mostly - the movie is about American Gay culture in the past - in Europe it was not such a big deal.. and I think most Europeans don't relate to it either.. Ya, ok amigo [/quote] Excuse me???? |
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Feb 18, 2008 12:52 AM GMT
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I'm gonna break away from the pack and say when I saw it, all I thought was "chick flick", only with two guys. It reminded me of the same basic formula of forbidden love, be it rich/poor, bi racial, etc. etc. only this time it was two guys. Some of my straight friends saw it and liked it and saw it more as a "gay" movie. When I watched it, I saw two people in love, who could not make it happen, for whatever reasons, just as in many "forbidden love" stories. |
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Feb 18, 2008 12:56 AM GMT
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I liked Brokeback and while it isn't my absolute favorite, it is on my list. It was one of the most picturesque and beautiful and I did like the music score...particularly the final song, The Wings. The movie touched my heart and soul. I absolutely understood the emotions and the unending longing to be together for more than a weekend romp in the wilderness with the one you love. I understand the homophobia and have experienced it too. I found myself in tears in the theater as I watched certain parts.
Other movies that I enjoyed were, in no particular order...
Latter Days
Fighting Tommy Riley
BIRDCAGE
In and Out
Jeffery...("Captain Piccard" was wonderful!)LOL!
Edge of Seventeen
Gods and Monsters
Trick
Defying Gravity
Rocky Horror Picture Show
Torch Song Trilogy
Philadelphia
and MANY more!
Enjoy!
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Feb 18, 2008 12:59 AM GMT
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This movie created the ultimate sexual fantasy in the minds of many gay people - 2 hot cowboys having a raunchy sexual relationship in the lovely outdoors... between a bunch of cattle.. roughing it out in the mountains.. fucking in the tents - isn't this what the best porn companies have always been trying to produce?? LOL.. this is really the reason why it was successful... not the boring long never ending emotional drama.
It would be interesting to see some sort of a poll which shows the popularity of this film between gay and straight audiences.
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Feb 18, 2008 1:06 AM GMT
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Travelstud, the reason why it was so popular (besides the acting and plot) was the fact it was the first mainstream Hollywood movie to show two non-stereotypical gay men in love. It was hardly a gay porn fantasy. You may not have liked the movie because you found it long, boring and drawn out, that is fine, and that is all you need to say! You don't need to extrapolate any further to try and figure out why other people liked it. Some straight members of my family including my sister and my mom enjoyed it immensely.
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Feb 18, 2008 1:36 AM GMT
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I can appreciate it for what it is.
Of course I've never seen it. Not much interest in seeing it anyhow, I like movies where things blow up!
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Feb 18, 2008 1:46 AM GMT
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No you are not the bad guy. I was the bad guy when I went to see it with my friends----I didn't cry---and thought the story line was weak and so predictable. I really dont understand why this movie got so much attention. My friends said I am heartless and unfeeling, maybe I missed something--but I doubt it.
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Feb 18, 2008 1:55 AM GMT
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Great movie! I love indie films though; technically Brokeback was not indie, it was very indie-esq.
Movies today are one dimensional, non thought provoking, and streamlined to hit larger audiences.
Brokeback is slow, but really emotional. Homosexuality and social issues were underlying themes. Proulx, intentional or not, had to use gay guys to eliminate bias created by the viewer's conceptual framework.
They were in love before their first night on the mountain and they both changed rigid aspects of their personalities even before they slept together, just to please the other. Jack's intentions were especially noticeable in his childlike mannerisms to evoke emotion in Ennis.
The movie also illustrates pain and denial as love's complimentary dominant emotions.
Then the irony at the end: Ennis refused a relationship to spare the two of them continued pain, however the pain caused by being apart was far greater, and the feared repercussions still happened.
In the end it became apparent that there was no reason to hide, the people they feared would judge them the most, already did. Not to mention that neither of them really cared about anyone other than each other.
The small details and cinematography made the movie. It's been a while since I have seen the movie so I don't remember all of them.
Just to point out, it's not clear how Jack died, and it doesn't matter. The story would be a greater tragedy if Jack lived. And a comedy(not in the funny sense) if Ennis died (being that he might as well of been dead after returning from Brokeback).
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Feb 18, 2008 2:10 AM GMT
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One more thing, a lot of people said the storyline was predictable.
Prolonged useless suspense is common in crappy films you only watch one because not knowing what will happen is the only thing keeping you watching. Whereas, I feel really good films unfold as you watch, similar to reading. The directors use video techniques the way authors use literary techniques.
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Feb 18, 2008 2:11 AM GMT
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Bad gay, bad!!
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Feb 18, 2008 4:22 AM GMT
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bgcat57 you hit it on the head, so many of these younger guys don't know what it was like to be gay at that time... it was 1963 guys. While I totally felt sorry for the women, I also understand that society forced gay men to marry or they would be ostracized. These guys weren't two assholes who set out to make their wives miserable, they did what they had to do in order to survive as gay men in that time. As you can see the moment straight society found out Jake's character was gay, he was killed. this isn't made up, this is the kind of thing that really happened. This isn't just a romaniticized movie, this is what was actually happening. Those of you who were lucky enough to grow up in more accepting times may not appreciate the content and that is understandable. I too would like to see more positive gay movie content but there is much to be learned in this movie as well. Also, I think this was the first mainstream movie to bring gay sex to the cinema which in itself is a bit of a break though. I think one of the messages here is to straight America; stop forcing gays into straight relationships in hopes of making them straight. bfg1, I also hate Trenton Tarantino! |
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Feb 18, 2008 4:24 AM GMT
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Who's Trenton Tarantino?
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Feb 18, 2008 4:30 AM GMT
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You are not alone. I thought the movie was over-rated.
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Feb 18, 2008 4:34 AM GMT
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I don't like it neigther, I find it fake, but there's anothe mexican one called "El cielo dividido" (broken sky), that one is reall good, i would be good t yo watched it... |
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Feb 18, 2008 4:39 AM GMT
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I think 20 year olds today only continue to ignore history, at most levels, so this means our country is in for some even deeper sh*t in the future. But I digress ...
I think what most gay youngens prefer to watch today are trivial, meaningless, close-to-porn, gay-themed movies like "The Mostly Unfabulous Social Life of Ethan Green" or "Not Another Gay Movie" than to recognize the historical environment of "Brokeback Mountain" and realize what those characters had to go through for that era. As a film, it is one of the better gay films out there, compared to the other two titles I mention (in addition to most BADLY done American-made gay movies), so it is not surprising a film taking place for that time would mean nothing to an unsubstantive mind today.
No doubt when the Sean Penn/Gus Van Zant film "Milk" comes out, this film may also be labeled as "really bad" and "non-impressive" amongst the under 24 age-range group because it won't be some tacky-campy comedy with well-built studs all 'roided out prancing around while hooking up.
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Feb 18, 2008 4:44 AM GMT
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I loved Brokeback. It was beautifully written and acted and tastefully done. Yes, it was set in the past, but there are places in the US where attitudes about gay men are still the same as they were then. There are still places in this country where to be openly gay is to risk your life, even if you're a 15-year old school kid.
But it was about more than that... it was about two men in love and having to live as if they weren't because of how society would treat them. And yes, when Ennis found out Jack had been killed, it was emotional... and even moreso when he was holding Jack's shirt. Of course, perhaps I related to that because I've lost friends to bashings and buried a lover as well... or maybe I'm just a softie...
For those of us who lived through the times and atmosphere portrayed in Brokeback, it brings back memories and we can identify because we know all too well how those characters felt. For the younger gay community, I hope it would, if nothing else, show how far we've come and how fortunate most gay men are today to not have to deal with such repression. Sadly, I'm discovering that cynicism and lack of knowledge of how things were (and still are in some communities) seems to have seriously diluted that message.
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Feb 18, 2008 4:48 AM GMT
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cadudesf: I am looking forward to MILK as well, I kind of wish Bryan Singer were directing it.
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Feb 18, 2008 4:51 AM GMT
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irishkcguy saidWho's Trenton Tarantino? Directed Pulp Fiction and some other horrible movies.. |
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Feb 18, 2008 4:52 AM GMT
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cadudesfI think 20 year olds today only continue to ignore history, at most levels, so this means our country is in for some even deeper sh*t in the f |
